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blue smoke all the time and burning lots of oil

This is a discussion on blue smoke all the time and burning lots of oil within the Grizzly Engine & Transmission forums, part of the Grizzly Forums category; Alright here's the story. My buddy has an 05 or an 06 450 kodiak and it sucks riding behind him, because his quad stinks, always ...


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#1
09-30-2010, 09:51 PM
blue smoke all the time and burning lots of oil

Alright here's the story.
My buddy has an 05 or an 06 450 kodiak and it sucks riding behind him, because his quad stinks, always blowing blue smoke and burns tons of oil. The quad started doing this at around 400 or 500 miles and now more at over 1000.
The quad runs great, except for the smoking.
What needs to be replaced / fixed, and how hard is it to do?
Thanks in advance for your help!!!!!
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#2
09-30-2010, 09:55 PM
Eeesh... first guess is that he's cooked the rings and is pushing the oil into the cyl. From what I hear, that means that it eventually will blow.
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#3
10-01-2010, 05:14 AM
worn rings or cylinder is the first thing that people will tell you, they might be right its very possible. if this is the case often but not alway the engine will be hard to start as its low on compression, if compression is leaking past the rings theres a good chance oil is leaking past too. check the compression figures with a cylinder compression gauge if its a lot lower than spec it probably needs a rebuild. another tell tale of worn rings or cylinder is that if you pull of an engine crank case breather or take off the oil filler cap whilst its running you will get alot of back pressure coming out, its hard to tell if your not sure what your looking at or if you dont have another bike to compare it too but it may be fairly obvious.

DO NOT OVERLOOK valve stem seals and valve guides, usualy but not always when rings or cylinder is worn an a 4 stroke [or a car] it will run fine when you are driving and using throttle maybe a bit smokey, but when you let go of the throttle ie slowing down into a corner, then when you give it more throttle coming out of the corner you get a huge plume of thick smoke from it. this is a classic case of worn piston/rings/cylinder.this is because you get a huge depression in the cylinder on the over-run [slowing down from highter rpm] this depression sucks oil up past the rings.

if however its smokey all the time its usualy worn valve guides/stems and/or seals.

it may be something else im just generalising but look ou for the above and it should give an indication to to fault.

cheers.
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#4
10-01-2010, 05:25 AM
p.s. there are loads of different additives you could try. none in my opinion will fix it if it needs a rebuild but it may help make it a bit better to live with for the time being.

ive used ametech restore, didnt think much of it but reviews on the net say its awesome. need to check if its safe for use with the kind of gearbox/clutch fitted to the bike.

ive got some lucas oil fortifier, its realy thick sticky shit it should help get the compression up a bit and stop oil leaking in the rings/guides as much. maybe worth a go?

oil seal conditioner, theres loads of brands it basically has a chemical seal in it which will [supposedly] soften up hard and brittle engine seals. this is the main cause of oil leaking past valve stem oil seals.

dont know about this one or if you can still get it. wouldnt use it myself but there was a product called holts piston seal, its a tube of paste, you removed the spark plug and squeezed into the cylinder the run the engine. it was supposed to melt all round the piston/rings and make a good seal. pretty nasty idea i think but just throwing it out there.

cheers bro.
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#5
10-01-2010, 07:55 AM
I'm just going to toss this out there. Sounds nuts, but here it goes.

I just bought a 98 600. Tried it in the person's yard, all good, home I went.

Found out that once it would get fully warmed up it would smoke like a...well, a lot. And when I say a lot, I mean enough that I would never think of taking it out on a run with other people.
The blowby would also blow so much oil into the airbox that it would drip puddles of oil out the airbox drain.

I went out on a 100 mile run, had to add oil 3 times. Even just out for a day by myself, taking it easy and puttering around, I would have to top the oil off at least a couple times.

I had myself ready for a top end. But, I'll be damned if it's not getting better each time I ride it. I haven't had to add oil in the last 2 times I was out. Wife's friend was behind me all day on her Cat and she said there was never any smoke, but could smell a burning oil smell now and again when I pushed it hard.

Talked to a guy that had 2 98 600's, he said they're bad for stuck rings if they sit around a lot. I don't know if he's full of it or not, but in two months, mine went from a fogger that I wouldn't drive where anyone might see me to no visible smoke at all.

Maybe a stuck ring? If you can find a cheap way to free it up, you might be golden.

I wouldn't think the top end would be gone at 400-500 miles...plus it sounds like it doesn't get much use if it has 1000 miles on it now.
Maybe that one has the same sickness mine did....
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#6
10-01-2010, 08:32 AM
Thanks Guys
The machine does sit around quite a bit.
How about this, Big bore kit!
Will this solve his problem?

Thanks again for your help!
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#7
10-01-2010, 09:07 AM
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How about this, Big bore kit!
Will this solve his problem?
There's no replacement for displacement. :-)
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#8
10-01-2010, 12:17 PM
Put some Marvel Mystery oil in the gas to free up the stuck rings. Sounds like it's getting better on it's own but the the Marvel will speed up the process by lubing the upper cylinder walls, rings and valves. Walmart sells it. Lots of people swear by this stuff and it won't hurt anything!
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#9
10-01-2010, 02:21 PM
what kind of oil is he using? I had a honda that burn`t amsoil like I used to drink beer switched back to honda oil all was good. is he over filling it? if all he has is 1,000 miles on it he didn`t break it in right if it turns out to be a ring problem.

A big bore kit will solve the problem if it is the rings. if it`s the valve guides then no it will still burn oil maybe even worse. if he`s going into the top end he mize well do the head (valve job).
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#10
10-04-2010, 06:09 PM
As others have said, if he doesn't have a mechanical problem.... check the oil level, if good, run some cleaner like Marvel Mystery Oil thru it or switch over to synthetic. If it stops burning oil, the oil rings were likely gummed up. Some folks start their ATV's and drive them to the mailbox and back and they rarely warm up so the oil rings get gummed up. Then they trail ride and they smoke.

I once switched a car with 109K miles on it over to synthetic motor oil and the consumption went from 1 qt. per 1,000 miles to 1 qt. per 2,500 miles in a few months. All I can figure is the synthetic oil cleaned the ring lands so they oil rings could work again and the synthetic oil is less volatile at operating temps so it wasn't vaporizing as easily as the dino and getting burned off.

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#11
10-04-2010, 08:36 PM
I'd recomend getting a cheap leak down tester from somewhere like Harbor Freight and just follow the directions to figure out where the problem is. If you go step by step you can pinpoint if it's in the cylinder/rings, valve seals etc.... A big bore kit will solve the issue if it's just a worn set of rings and cylinder, but as madmike said ounce you crack into things this deep go the extra mile and check the condition of the valves and repair anything that is not in spec it will save a lot of headaches down the road and also save money in the long run.
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#12
10-07-2010, 01:54 AM
has he fliped it over? my buddie fliped my 700 over and it must have cooked somthing. im not sure what he did i wasnt there but mine eventually went now i gotta replace the crank and the whole top end so find out what it is now before it gets to bad!
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#13
10-12-2010, 03:58 PM
Im in the same boat I have a 09 700 with only 610 miles on it, I broke it in as the owners manual told me to (which sucked) and 2 weeks ago while we were on a trip at Hatfield it started smoking like a freight train and the one-way bearing came out of it. so now its sitting at the dealer waiting to see if yamaha will cover the repairs since im 3 weeks out of warranty.
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#14
10-12-2010, 07:41 PM
Rings
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#15
10-13-2010, 03:42 PM
Thats what I figure it is, guess its time for a 802 kit then.
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