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'07 450 Missing at all RPM's

7K views 15 replies 4 participants last post by  vmaxman  
#1 · (Edited)
Hey guys. Mike here. I have a fairly new to me grizzly with some issues. It is breaking up at all RPM. Video below. I was getting the bike ready to go to HMT, after my great idea of preventative maintenance, I know have real issues.

First thing I did was check the valve lash. I loosened the front plastics to get access to the exhaust. Both valve were good, no adjustment needed.

I pulled the carb to check it out. It always seemed to want just a touch of choke to stay running. I thought maybe the pilot jet was partially clogged. Surprisingly, it looked really good in there. Just a touch of debris in the float bowl. All jets were clear. I removed the 2 diaphragms and then cleaned it out with carb cleaner and made sure all the openings were clear by blowing thru with my air compressor.

After putting it back together, it does not run right. It misses at all RPM. The spark plug goes black after just a few minutes of run time. I have to give it throttle to keep it running. It is not driveable in this condition.

Here is a video link of what it is doing.
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I figured that I must have messed something up with the carb teardown since it ran fine before I touched it. I took it off and checked it 3 times since. I'm no carb expert but, I've been into enough of them to know my way around and not be intimidated. I've done a number of carb jobs on street bikes (vmax) which is a similar CV design but, there are 4 of them instead of 1.

The diaphragms are both in good shape (no holes), installed correctly as are their covers. All jets are clean and clear. All passageways are clean and clear. Choke plunger is operating properly. I did a wet check on the float level by attaching clear hose to the float drain tube. I marked the carb body at 4.5mm. Fuel level is spot on.

After checking the carb multiple times and not finding anything wrong, I started checking electrical items. I replaced the plug multiple times with no change. New OEM coil. New NGK 5 Ohm plug cap. I even tried a different (known good) CDI unit. No change.

I checked to make sure the timing chain did not jump while rotating the engine during the valve check. With the flywheel on the "T", I took the cam cover off and the "I" on the sprocket lines up the pointer cast in the head.

I did resistance checks on the stator and pickup coil. Stator was good. White/Red-White/Green resistance on pickup coil was good. Red-White/Blue resistance was .208 vs the manual range of .085-.105. I'm not sure if 1/10 of an ohm is enough to call it bad?

About the only thing I can thing of that I haven't done is put a timing light on it.

Open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks,
Mike

'07 Grizzly 450 Stock
 
#2 ·
Tonight I checked to make sure the choke wasn't sticking partially closed.

I removed the cable from the plunger. Put the plunger back in the carb body. Put the spring in and screwed the cap on.

No change. So, I know the choke isn't sticking.

I also tried a different float needle. The spring in the Grizz needle felt a bit weak. It collapsed pretty easily. I took a needle out of my spare vmax carbs.

No change.

The spark plugs are turning black in a few minutes. I'm thinking it's too rich or not enough spark.

I didn't change anything in the carb, it ran fine before teardown.

I changed the plug, ignition coil, and swapped CDI.

No change.

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#3 ·
With no offense intended, it wasn't missing before you started the prevent maintenance?
I never heard of a normal service causing what you have going on.
What could be done wrong to cause the missing?
Years ago my buddy bought a used 660 and the plug boot was on crooked and not sealed to the head. This let in water and that would cause the engine to miss like what you have. But you have been changing the plug so dampness there should have been caught.
Maybe you have something electrical going on, but could that be?
 
#4 ·
No offense taken at all.

The bike was running fine before I messed with it.

I'm a bit lost at this point. I'm thinking carb but I'm not sure what I could have done to it to change anything.

Electrical is possible but what would be next? Ignition coil, plug cap, plug, and CDI have been swapped.

Is it possible the pickup coil could cause a misfire even if it ohms out correctly?

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#5 ·
I would suspect a rubbed wire and low voltage if it was doing this as a result of riding.
Once the machine starts to vibrate, a wire bouncing against the frame would be suspect.
Its the part about runs good then serviced and runs bad that has me scratching my head.
Its almost like you pinched a wire during the servicing.
The other thing is the carb wasn't worked on before the problem and those things don't change like that.
You can try turning the gas valve closed then running the engine to drain the bowl and see if it wants to run better as it get low on gas.
 
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#6 ·
You can try turning the gas valve closed then running the engine to drain the bowl and see if it wants to run better as it get low on gas.
I was wondering about a pinched wire. I will have to check the wires that feed the ignition coil.

I did shut the fuel valve off while testing. The engine speeds up for about 5 seconds before it dies from fuel starvation. That is typical in my experience. It doesn't run any better, just speeds up then dies.

Thanks for your input so far. Always helpful to have someone throw ideas out!

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#7 ·
If it stumbles as it runs out of gas, I'm betting on an electrical problem.
Is the ground wire connection clean and tight?
 
#8 ·
To me it sounds like it is running very rich. When you run it out of gas it leans out to a more normal mixture just before it dies. Re-check the float height. Here is somethings to check out.

Image
 
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#11 ·
I've triple checked the stator, pickup coil, and source coil. All ohms out good.

New ignition coil, plug cap, plug, and CDI.

Checked harness for any signs of damaged wiring. I don't see anything that looks bad.

I verified I am getting good spark. I took an old plug and cut part of the threads and the ground strap off, exposing the porcelain. I plugged this in and hit the starter. The plug is firing a nice, blue spark against the engine. I was able to get the plug about 1" away from the engine before it would misfire and my hands got tingly.

I ordered a spare carb from ebay and will see if that makes a difference.
 
#12 ·
My used OEM carb came in from ebay today. I tore it down and cleaned it really good.

Put it on the grizz and she runs like a champ.

Not sure what happened to the original one? Floats were set, it was clean and all jets were in the right spot. It's a bit of a mystery as to why it is now rich.

Anyways, it's all good!

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