Yet another question on shims, springs, etc.. - Yamaha Grizzly ATV Forum
Grizzly Engine & Transmission Discuss your Grizzly engine and transmission modifications here.

 14Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
Thanks: 24
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Yet another question on shims, springs, etc..

It's time for new tires, and I think I'll go from 25" to 26", and doing Bearclaw HTRs. I imagine I could do just fine with a stock CVT setup, but I wouldn't mind getting just a bit more low-end, even if it costs me a bit of top-end speed. If my top-end went from 60 to 50, I'd probably never notice. I'm not, however, looking to put a lot of money or modding into it. I've read a few threads here and other places, but I'm not entirely sure I'm grasping things.

In order to get just a bit more low end, I'm thinking of adding a 0.5 or 1mm shim, and calling it a day. Is there anything wrong with just doing that, and leaving the springs/wet clutch alone?

Or, if I wanted just a bit more responsiveness in down-shifting, which spring color would be a mild/moderate step up from stock?

2009 Grizz 700. No other performance mods.
TiccyTac is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 26 Old 06-10-2019, 11:41 PM
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northern Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,278
Thanks: 84
Thanked 582 Times in 401 Posts
Rep Power: 35
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiccyTac View Post
It's time for new tires, and I think I'll go from 25" to 26", and doing Bearclaw HTRs. I imagine I could do just fine with a stock CVT setup, but I wouldn't mind getting just a bit more low-end, even if it costs me a bit of top-end speed. If my top-end went from 60 to 50, I'd probably never notice. I'm not, however, looking to put a lot of money or modding into it. I've read a few threads here and other places, but I'm not entirely sure I'm grasping things.

In order to get just a bit more low end, I'm thinking of adding a 0.5 or 1mm shim, and calling it a day. Is there anything wrong with just doing that, and leaving the springs/wet clutch alone?

Or, if I wanted just a bit more responsiveness in down-shifting, which spring color would be a mild/moderate step up from stock?

2009 Grizz 700. No other performance mods.
I wouldn't bother with 0.5 shim, but some mite say otherwise. I'd start with a 1mm shim and ride with that for awhile. If you feel the need, now or later, most upgrade to the Epi purple spring.
TiccyTac likes this.

2009 Grizzly 550 Special Edition, Red Midnight Armour, EPS, 26"Pitbull Growler BG2.5 xor, on 12"polished alloy SE wheels with 1"spacers, Yamaha overfenders & windshield, Heat Demon grips & thumb warmers, 2500lbs Warn winch, two up seat / storage box, Moose rear bumper, Gold Plugs in diffs & engine, Pod Mod set to 45, COOP45 machined sheave + 0.5 shim (3.1:1), 18 gram weights, EPI Orange spring

Last edited by Vincent; 06-10-2019 at 11:54 PM.
Vincent is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Vincent For This Useful Post:
TiccyTac (06-11-2019)
post #3 of 26 Old 06-11-2019, 09:03 AM
 
reogem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Northern WI.
Posts: 7,002
Thanks: 2,872
Thanked 3,066 Times in 2,112 Posts
Rep Power: 137
                     
You probably not notice any torque loss with that tire.
On the same note you probably wouldn't notice any gain with the .5
Adding 1.25 or 1.5mm shim will be more noticeable.

You would notice the difference with or without any of the above by adding the purple spring.
it400, Vincent and TiccyTac like this.

2019 Kodiak 700 EPS BC blue
26.5" Pitbull Growlers Uber XOR
STI HD1 Beadlock Wheels


(Traded)16 Kodiak EPS 700 Dirty Egg Salad (Camo)
15300miles
Grezzzless CVT 22g
Stock tires and wheels


Hers 16 Kodiak EPS 700 Camo
26.5" Pitbull Growlers Uber XOR
STI HD1 Wheels


2013 Ole blue 700
Putting out to Stud 21365 miles
360/120 zombie cut CVT Purple spring
26" ML XTRs
stocker wheels
grezzzless clutch.
reogem is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to reogem For This Useful Post:
TiccyTac (06-11-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 26 Old 06-11-2019, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
Thanks: 24
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Excellent, thank you both!
TiccyTac is offline  
post #5 of 26 Old 06-11-2019, 07:25 PM
 
jvictory1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: middle Tennessee
Age: 44
Posts: 2,060
Thanks: 979
Thanked 604 Times in 454 Posts
Rep Power: 81
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiccyTac View Post
It's time for new tires, and I think I'll go from 25" to 26", and doing Bearclaw HTRs. I imagine I could do just fine with a stock CVT setup, but I wouldn't mind getting just a bit more low-end, even if it costs me a bit of top-end speed. If my top-end went from 60 to 50, I'd probably never notice. I'm not, however, looking to put a lot of money or modding into it. I've read a few threads here and other places, but I'm not entirely sure I'm grasping things.

In order to get just a bit more low end, I'm thinking of adding a 0.5 or 1mm shim, and calling it a day. Is there anything wrong with just doing that, and leaving the springs/wet clutch alone?

Or, if I wanted just a bit more responsiveness in down-shifting, which spring color would be a mild/moderate step up from stock?

2009 Grizz 700. No other performance mods.
I would ride it stock after the tires to see how you like it first. My buddy moved up from 25s to 28s and I put a 1.5 shim and purple spring in it for him the same day we installed the tires. He called me after his first ride and said the shim and spring was waste of money because he felt no difference. He didn't know how much power he lost because he never felt it with the bigger tires before the clutch work.
wheelsquad and Vincent like this.

08 700 EPS
27"BHOG's W/ITP SS112 rims
Ricochet full skids
1.5xxbillet spacers
1.5shimw/EPI purple spring
HMF XL pipe w/optimizer
Uni air filter
Moose front and rear bumpers
12" LED bar and Halos
Rotopax 3gal fuel cell
Yami overfenders
Yami hand guards Yami rear box
Warn XT2.5 winch w/syn. rope
LED reverse light
ODI grips
Rhino axles
Wetsounds Stealth6 soundbar
Rox footpegs
jvictory1974 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to jvictory1974 For This Useful Post:
TiccyTac (06-27-2019)
post #6 of 26 Old 06-11-2019, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
Thanks: 24
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvictory1974 View Post
I would ride it stock after the tires to see how you like it first. My buddy moved up from 25s to 28s and I put a 1.5 shim and purple spring in it for him the same day we installed the tires. He called me after his first ride and said the shim and spring was waste of money because he felt no difference. He didn't know how much power he lost because he never felt it with the bigger tires before the clutch work.

Quite fair call!
TiccyTac is offline  
post #7 of 26 Old 06-11-2019, 11:04 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seven Mile OH
Age: 54
Posts: 60
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 141
 
I put 26 outlaw mts on my o7 450 and relay didn't notice much lose in power. Only mod I've done is cut the diaphragm spring down to let it open up faster. Ok just read 28's I recon eye sites goin too.
jvictory1974 likes this.

Last edited by Bluecat; 06-11-2019 at 11:10 PM. Reason: mise read post
Bluecat is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Bluecat For This Useful Post:
TiccyTac (06-12-2019)
post #8 of 26 Old 06-27-2019, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
Thanks: 24
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Just a followup, I put the 26" HTR's on a week ago, and installed a 1mm shim and an EPI purple spring today. The way people talk about them, I really expected more than what they delivered... but still, the larger tires + clutch/tranny mods still have more pull, and better downshifting than the factory tires & setup, and I'm 100% OK with that. I know I could go bigger on the shim, and/or get my sheave machined, but honestly, this is more than enough performance for me right now.
TiccyTac is offline  
post #9 of 26 Old 06-28-2019, 02:37 PM
 
MNDirtRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maple Plain, MN
Age: 47
Posts: 858
Thanks: 314
Thanked 440 Times in 275 Posts
Rep Power: 91
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiccyTac View Post
Just a followup, I put the 26" HTR's on a week ago, and installed a 1mm shim and an EPI purple spring today. The way people talk about them, I really expected more than what they delivered...

Just curious but which part are you disappointed in... tires or clutch mods?

2012 Grizzly 700 EPS (bought new in 2012)
ITP 212 12 inch wheels - 26" Bear Claw HTRs - JBS Sheave with .5 mm shim - Yamaha Glide Plate - Ricochet A-arm guards - Moose Front & Rear Bumpers - PowerMadd Hand Guards - Pelican 1470 case - Black Boar Boar storage box - Symtec Heated Grips - Warn RT30 Winch - Moose 60" straight plow - ROX Speed Riser Kit - Sirius LED bar and cubes

2005 Grizzly 660 SE (bought used in 2018)
ITP C4 wheels - BearClaw HTR 26" tires - Viper 3500 Syn - Auxbeam 12" light bar - Heat Demon Grips

2005 Grizzly 80 (bought used)

2016 Wolverine R-Spec (bought new May 2017)
STI wheels - 27" CST Clincher tires - Superwinch Terra 4500 Syn.
MNDirtRider is offline  
post #10 of 26 Old 06-28-2019, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
Thanks: 24
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNDirtRider View Post
Just curious but which part are you disappointed in... tires or clutch mods?

I wouldn't say disappointed. The clutch mods didn't live up to my expectations, but then again... my expectations were probably pie-in-the-sky. But like I said, they're an absolute improvement, and I'm good with that. If I wasn't, I'd open it back up and put another 0.25 or 0.5mm of shim in there, but really... I'm satisfied.


As to the tires, I've been so busy I haven't been able to get them on some good dirt yet. End-of-quarter at work and all, but that's over, and I'm headed out this week.
MNDirtRider and Vincent like this.
TiccyTac is offline  
post #11 of 26 Old 06-28-2019, 08:08 PM
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northern Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,278
Thanks: 84
Thanked 582 Times in 401 Posts
Rep Power: 35
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiccyTac View Post
I wouldn't say disappointed. The clutch mods didn't live up to my expectations, but then again... my expectations were probably pie-in-the-sky. But like I said, they're an absolute improvement, and I'm good with that. If I wasn't, I'd open it back up and put another 0.25 or 0.5mm of shim in there, but really... I'm satisfied.


As to the tires, I've been so busy I haven't been able to get them on some good dirt yet. End-of-quarter at work and all, but that's over, and I'm headed out this week.

Appreciate the honest feedback.

2009 Grizzly 550 Special Edition, Red Midnight Armour, EPS, 26"Pitbull Growler BG2.5 xor, on 12"polished alloy SE wheels with 1"spacers, Yamaha overfenders & windshield, Heat Demon grips & thumb warmers, 2500lbs Warn winch, two up seat / storage box, Moose rear bumper, Gold Plugs in diffs & engine, Pod Mod set to 45, COOP45 machined sheave + 0.5 shim (3.1:1), 18 gram weights, EPI Orange spring
Vincent is offline  
post #12 of 26 Old 06-28-2019, 09:22 PM
 
wheelsquad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Central MN
Age: 37
Posts: 1,222
Thanks: 281
Thanked 508 Times in 335 Posts
Rep Power: 97
                     
@TiccyTac what 25's did you have on before?

2011 Grizzly 450 EPS
Artrax CTX 26-9-12's all around
on Rock A168 rims
JBS sheave - no shim
18 gram Dr Pulley overdrive sliders
MotionPro twist throttle kit
rear brake lever run in vertical orientation
gripper seat cover
rear fender flares
Champion 3000 lb winch w/ synthetic rope
KFI 48" plow + wings
handlebar mounted light bar
homemade electric plow angle
homemade plow lifted height indicator

2004 Rancher AT
+ Lots of other Honda's in the family
wheelsquad is offline  
post #13 of 26 Old 06-28-2019, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 83
Thanks: 24
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsquad View Post
@TiccyTac what 25's did you have on before?

Factory Dunlops. The bigger, wider HTRs are DEFINITELY a lot heavier.
TiccyTac is offline  
post #14 of 26 Old 06-28-2019, 10:15 PM
 
Parks450's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 57
Thanks: 1
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
After riding my grizzly with 28" moto mtc tire with 15" msa diesel wheels it was pretty doggy. I added a 1mm shim and it had zero change in it. From what I gathered a 1.5mm shim was about the minimum you wanted to do. After messing with it, I'm just sending my primary to coop on here to have it machined.
TiccyTac likes this.

2013 Grizzly 700 SE
Elka Stage 3 shocks, ROX riser and bar kit, powermad guards, HID kit, 15" MSA M12 diesel wheels, 28" EFX Moto MTC tires, Warn 3000lb winch, power tip
Parks450 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Parks450 For This Useful Post:
TiccyTac (06-29-2019)
post #15 of 26 Old 06-29-2019, 01:33 PM
 
Ridgway81432's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ridgway, Colorado
Age: 59
Posts: 8,814
Thanks: 1,086
Thanked 3,730 Times in 2,358 Posts
Rep Power: 133
                     
I got to reading the different member's experiences for C.V.T. mods to counteract taller tires and decided to add a few words abut what is going on, and to suggest thinking of the changes/mods in percentages.

WHAT, you may ask?

I joined G.C. because taller tires massed with my set-up and I did not have it figured out on my own. Searches on this led me to G.C. and to ask a question a membership was needed, sound familiar? :)

The deal is, very few tires have the actual diameter stated on the sidewall so like with me, going from the stock '06' dunflops marked 25"s tall, that were actually 23.5"s tall started the problem. It was a couple years of testing later i realized why, and this is that part of the story....

Due to gearing in the transmission, it takes so many engine rotations at a chosen speed to get the grizz down a measured mile. The variable pulley system causes this number to change for a given speed, so when trying to deal with a specific aspect of the drive system pick a speed to focus on. I picked zero speed, 20 m.p.h. and 40 m.p.h. as my focal speeds.

The example what my set-up offered, the 23.5" tires have a 74" roll-out, so for the mile the math is:
5280' x 12"s divided by 74"s for the number of times the axle turns over a measured mile.

Then the tires I added had a 83" roll-out so the math changed to:
5280 x 12"s divided by 83"s for less turns of the axle, thus few engine revolutions (engine power produced).

My percentage change of axle rotations per mile was about 11%, so I learned that raising the pulley ratio this same percentage amount was the trick to get back the stock feel.

Members in above posts has said they added a 1 mm shim and were not impressed, but satisfied, well now you know why I have for years been suggesting you count the starting and ending pulley ratios. 1 mm of shim, depending on your bike, may be good for 4 to 5 percent change, you did not add enough. Oh....then as for the 1.5 mm recommendation, that is because 1.7 mm's is all most newer 700's will accept before the grease cover screws start rubbing the primary cage. More will go in, lime up to 2 mm's, but then other changes need to be made. (My older 660 has a lot of room under the cover, and will take 2.5 mm of shim, with the limiting factor being the shaft spline that engages the cam plate. Each model has a limiting factor and not all limits are the same.)

In a nut shell, I picked 0 ground speed (at launch) because of the number of C.V.T. mods I run in combination. All listed in my signature are currently installed in combination.

I have a high ratio for launch, the high ratio magnifies torque produced. The stock engine produces whatever stock torque which the wet clutch is designed to handle at the stock engagement r.p.m., so I have experienced no wet clutch problems. Then once the torque power is transferred through the wet clutch, I use pulley ratio changes to multiply the torque for more haul-ass. I can get a 3.75 ratio and use a stiffer spring, but then the axles start to break, so I stay with a 3.54 ratio maximum and the purple spring works for that at this elevation. I say this elevation because my grizz lives at 7000 ft. and is always down 28% on power from sea level. You guys at sea level will have more power, so you may not need what I have found. My signature is to let you know what can be done with a little thought and effort.

My basic numbers went like this:
I started with a 2.5 to 1 ratio, so increasing 11% made the ratio 2.775 to 1. That could not be reached with 1 mm or shim.

This may help some of you understand why the 3 to 1 ratio feels good, it takes care of tires in the 26" to 27" diameter range depending on your actual tire diameter.

Now you may understand when running my 3.54 ratio, almost 42% better than the stock 2.5 ratio, this thing is very responsive.

I picked 20 m.p.h. as a focus point because that is as fast as i want to hit the big rock in this area, so that is the speed I want the grizz to transition from a rock bouncer to a cruiser. I did this by different weights for the spring used and the starting ratio. If I install a different ratio the transition speed to cruise is lowered. The 20 m.p.h. speed dictates the length of cut for the cam plate mod#2, and the 40 m.p.h. speed determines the amount of bend before welding for high gas mileage.

The video was done with me following 3 other members on 700's, we let the first two take off, then caught them in 3 or so minutes. At the 3:40 mark you can see the guy ahead of me start rocking because his 700 running about a 2.9 ratio was done accelerating, and my 660 had a lot more to give. I could have passed him and he knew it, oh and this was the member here that just the day before we did 455 miles in one day. I was using a lower ratio then the 3.54 because on the long day ride needed high mileage. That was because we needed to carry all gas needed for the day, for two machine over that distance. Then we meet the other two members the next day and this was the beginning of that day which covered 134 miles, or so. As for the high mileage aspect, the day this video was done, I was a mile or two from the truck before needing to use the reserve part of the tank. That was about 4 gallons for the day.

There is no one size fits all for those wanting plug and play C.V.T. mods, but if you are like me and willing to put in time and experiment some, the grizz can be made much more user friendly platform. It is already reliable, it just needs a little more fun :)
saskydude and TiccyTac like this.

Jim,
Fast Green Convertible "06" 660 on 26" BH OG's with Stock Wheels.
COOP45 Primary, 1.5 mm shim, -1.5 mm belt, Purple Secondary Spring,
21 gram weights, weight covers reduced to 29 mm diameter and a 2 mm Cut Cam Plate.
2 heat range hotter plug, Warn Winch, Passenger Foot Rests, Rock Deflectors, Heated Grips and Hand Mitts,
Grab Strap, Cooling System Up-Grade and multiple position mirrors.
8040 miles, 812 hours on 1-1-15
Y.A.C.C. #43
Ridgway81432 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Ridgway81432 For This Useful Post:
TiccyTac (06-29-2019)
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Yamaha Grizzly ATV Forum > Grizzly Forums > Grizzly Engine & Transmission

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Clutch Kit Thread- EXPO$ED! wayupnorth Grizzly Engine & Transmission 149 04-11-2019 08:30 AM
Highlifter springs griz7 Grizzly Talk 2 03-04-2018 04:17 PM
Clutches, shims, springs weights and one ways omfg moebeeza Grizzly Talk 28 03-04-2017 11:10 AM
87 Big Bear 350 Middle Gear Shims? CrazyQuickDraw Yamaha Big Bear/Bruin/Wolverine ATV Discussion 0 01-16-2017 07:07 PM
Tranny Weights/ Springs for Altitude max49 Yamaha Big Bear/Bruin/Wolverine ATV Discussion 2 09-23-2008 10:51 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome