2014 Grizzly 450 - Heavier/Bigger tires. Clutch Mod/s help! - Yamaha Grizzly ATV Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 06-29-2019, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Exclamation 2014 Grizzly 450 - Heavier/Bigger tires. Clutch Mod/s help!

Yes, I'm back! I know I've asked before, but now I have bigger and heavier tires than my last ones.


I currently have Arisun Swamp Things that are true 27" tires ( x11x14) at 40lbs each all around. I came from 26" (25" actually ) CST Wild Thangs tires, with 1mm shim, 18g OD weights, and Orange spring. Which seemed to be a decent setup for those tires... But now, I have almost twice as heavy tires, and acouple inches taller, with 1.5" deep lugs. I noticed a loss in power for sure, and although my wheeler can still turn them, I'm looking to gain that power and acceleration back. I decided to order a white spring and another .75mm shim, but I'm starting to think the white spring might not be a good fit. I haven't yet tested it, but I'd rather get a better more fit spring before I put everything back together and test it. I'm thinking a purple or gold spring might be a better fit, since they are really heavy 27" tires, but I got them brand new for 50 bucks each, so I ain't complaining... And they work pretty good!


So, what spring should I get? that would be ideal to start... purple or gold? and should I just go with 1.5mm shim or 1.75mm, or stay with 1mm? And what about weights? 18g I think help reduce the rpms at midrange? but I'm guessing a stronger spring might increase rpm's..? and of course increasing shim too.


I'm waiting to put it altogether on monday. I'm currently working on putting in slugs and a new one way bearing.


Any help would be appreciated, yet again. I know I've asked before on my last setup, but just in need of some quick advice on a good starting point, so I can get some torque and acceleration back. I already put the white spring in, but I might just order a purple, but not sure if purple will be strong enough, or a big enough difference over the orange. I did feel like I was getting some belt slip, but not sure. I figured getting a white would be enough to put some extra grip on the belt, but thinking it might cause some other performance issues.
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2014 Yamaha Grizzly 450 EPS Hunter Edition:



  • High Lifter 2 inch lift
  • 1.75mm Shim + Orange Secondary Spring + 18g OD Weights
  • 27 in Arisun Swamp Things on 14" Sedona Spyder wheels
  • JBS Wet clutch Slug Kit
  • Bison Brush guards
  • Side fender flares
  • HMF Performance Blackout exhaust + EHS Airbox Lid
  • Rox Risers Handlebar Kit + ODI Grips
  • PC Racing Flo steel oil filter
  • Tungsten 4x4 3000lbs winch
  • 12in Flood/Spot Combo LED + 5.5 Slim LED for Rear
  • Powermadd Sentinel hand guards with LED light kit
  • Aluminium Products - Full Body Skid plate + A-Arm Guards
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post #2 of 24 Old 06-29-2019, 04:34 PM
 
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Try 1.5 or 1.75 of shim with purple spring.

2009 Grizzly 550 Special Edition, Red Midnight Armour, EPS, 26"Pitbull Growler BG2.5 xor, on 12"polished alloy SE wheels with 1"spacers, Yamaha overfenders & windshield, Heat Demon grips & thumb warmers, 2500lbs Warn winch, two up seat / storage box, Moose rear bumper, Gold Plugs in diffs & engine, Pod Mod set to 45, COOP45 machined sheave + 0.5 shim (3.1:1), 18 gram weights, EPI Orange spring
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post #3 of 24 Old 06-29-2019, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
Try 1.5 or 1.75 of shim with purple spring.

Thanks, I was thinking the same. I do plan on getting a machined sheave as well... finally, after avoiding spending the money on one for so long. Wishing I would have bought the whole JBS hotrod kit when I first bought the bike, it would have saved me alot of tinkering, time, and money, and could of just went for purple spring from blue. But my last setup seemed fine with 25" 23-25lb tires.


Also, the purple spring is only a 5lb difference from an orange... Maybe a gold spring would be a sweet spot with my heavy tires?

2014 Yamaha Grizzly 450 EPS Hunter Edition:



  • High Lifter 2 inch lift
  • 1.75mm Shim + Orange Secondary Spring + 18g OD Weights
  • 27 in Arisun Swamp Things on 14" Sedona Spyder wheels
  • JBS Wet clutch Slug Kit
  • Bison Brush guards
  • Side fender flares
  • HMF Performance Blackout exhaust + EHS Airbox Lid
  • Rox Risers Handlebar Kit + ODI Grips
  • PC Racing Flo steel oil filter
  • Tungsten 4x4 3000lbs winch
  • 12in Flood/Spot Combo LED + 5.5 Slim LED for Rear
  • Powermadd Sentinel hand guards with LED light kit
  • Aluminium Products - Full Body Skid plate + A-Arm Guards

Last edited by Bperley; 06-29-2019 at 08:44 PM.
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post #4 of 24 Old 06-29-2019, 11:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bperley View Post
Also, the purple spring is only a 5lb difference from an orange... Maybe a gold spring would be a sweet spot with my heavy tires?
Do what you feel is needed. No one can give you the perfect recipe for your requirements of a keyboard.

2009 Grizzly 550 Special Edition, Red Midnight Armour, EPS, 26"Pitbull Growler BG2.5 xor, on 12"polished alloy SE wheels with 1"spacers, Yamaha overfenders & windshield, Heat Demon grips & thumb warmers, 2500lbs Warn winch, two up seat / storage box, Moose rear bumper, Gold Plugs in diffs & engine, Pod Mod set to 45, COOP45 machined sheave + 0.5 shim (3.1:1), 18 gram weights, EPI Orange spring
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post #5 of 24 Old 06-30-2019, 06:56 AM
 
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I seriously doubt you need much more then an orange or purple spring. I ve been running my 550 Grizz hard with an Orange spring and turning 140lbs worth of PitBull Growlers for 2500 miles with Zero issues.

2009 Grizzly 550 Special Edition, Red Midnight Armour, EPS, 26"Pitbull Growler BG2.5 xor, on 12"polished alloy SE wheels with 1"spacers, Yamaha overfenders & windshield, Heat Demon grips & thumb warmers, 2500lbs Warn winch, two up seat / storage box, Moose rear bumper, Gold Plugs in diffs & engine, Pod Mod set to 45, COOP45 machined sheave + 0.5 shim (3.1:1), 18 gram weights, EPI Orange spring

Last edited by Vincent; 06-30-2019 at 07:21 AM.
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post #6 of 24 Old 06-30-2019, 07:57 AM
 
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Those OD sliders actually lower your pulley ratio down low and don't raise it like they claim. With the tires you have now I'd recommend going back to round rollers. If you like the upshift rate keep them at 18gr. But if you want higher rpm and more response at mid-speed riding, I'd drop down to 14gr, maybe even 12gr.

2011 Grizzly 450 EPS
Artrax CTX 26-9-12's all around
on Rock A168 rims
JBS sheave - no shim
18 gram Dr Pulley overdrive sliders
MotionPro twist throttle kit
rear brake lever run in vertical orientation
gripper seat cover
rear fender flares
Champion 3000 lb winch w/ synthetic rope
KFI 48" plow + wings
handlebar mounted light bar
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homemade plow lifted height indicator

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+ Lots of other Honda's in the family
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post #7 of 24 Old 06-30-2019, 08:18 AM
 
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It ain't the weight of the taller tires causing your problem, it is the larger tire circumference.
You need to get the ratio up from where you are now, this multiplies the torque produced, then see if you have enough spring tension. Then changing the weight of the weights can be done to get the engine r.p.m.'s where you want them for a given speed.
I did not use James' system after talking to him a few years ago, do what you think best for effort you are willing to put into a proper set-up.
I used COOP45 because his machining is simple and straight forward and can be used in combination with dozens of different mod combinations for different trail conditions.

Jim,
Fast Green Convertible "06" 660 on 26" BH OG's with Stock Wheels.
COOP45 Primary, 1.5 mm shim, -1.5 mm belt, Purple Secondary Spring,
21 gram weights, weight covers reduced to 29 mm diameter and a 2 mm Cut Cam Plate.
2 heat range hotter plug, Warn Winch, Passenger Foot Rests, Rock Deflectors, Heated Grips and Hand Mitts,
Grab Strap, Cooling System Up-Grade and multiple position mirrors.
8040 miles, 812 hours on 1-1-15
Y.A.C.C. #43
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post #8 of 24 Old 06-30-2019, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgway81432 View Post
It ain't the weight of the taller tires causing your problem, it is the larger tire circumference.
You need to get the ratio up from where you are now, this multiplies the torque produced, then see if you have enough spring tension. Then changing the weight of the weights can be done to get the engine r.p.m.'s where you want them for a given speed.
I did not use James' system after talking to him a few years ago, do what you think best for effort you are willing to put into a proper set-up.
I used COOP45 because his machining is simple and straight forward and can be used in combination with dozens of different mod combinations for different trail conditions.

What are your thoughts on going greaseless weights? Someone mentioned I might want to try it with the heavier slider weights to get better response... And possibly a gold spring? I'm just trying to figure out what a good starting point would be, then go from there. I might just put the orange spring back in for now, and try it with the new belt, one way, slugs.. Plus i Just put in new front wheel bearings and new axles, which was much needed. So it should roll better now. And I'll probably try 1.5mm shim instead of 1mm as well, with orange spring, then get a purple or gold spring later, and a sheave when I get the spare money.


As for getting a coop sheave, how do you go about doing that? how long does it usually take to get it back? and how much does he charge?

2014 Yamaha Grizzly 450 EPS Hunter Edition:



  • High Lifter 2 inch lift
  • 1.75mm Shim + Orange Secondary Spring + 18g OD Weights
  • 27 in Arisun Swamp Things on 14" Sedona Spyder wheels
  • JBS Wet clutch Slug Kit
  • Bison Brush guards
  • Side fender flares
  • HMF Performance Blackout exhaust + EHS Airbox Lid
  • Rox Risers Handlebar Kit + ODI Grips
  • PC Racing Flo steel oil filter
  • Tungsten 4x4 3000lbs winch
  • 12in Flood/Spot Combo LED + 5.5 Slim LED for Rear
  • Powermadd Sentinel hand guards with LED light kit
  • Aluminium Products - Full Body Skid plate + A-Arm Guards
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post #9 of 24 Old 06-30-2019, 01:35 PM
 
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I had the Coop45 mod 3 done myself. I live in MS, sent it to him and it was there and back in a week. That mod has done me wonders.

2018 Grizzly SE
29.5x10-12 Terms on stock rims
Coop45 Mod #3
.5mm Shim
16 gram weights
White Secondary
K&N Air Filter
HMF Swamp XL Exhaust with HMF Optimizer
3500lbs Superwinch
N2D Snorkel and Rad Kit
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post #10 of 24 Old 06-30-2019, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bperley View Post
What are your thoughts on going greaseless weights? Someone mentioned I might want to try it with the heavier slider weights to get better response... And possibly a gold spring? I'm just trying to figure out what a good starting point would be, then go from there. I might just put the orange spring back in for now, and try it with the new belt, one way, slugs.. Plus i Just put in new front wheel bearings and new axles, which was much needed. So it should roll better now. And I'll probably try 1.5mm shim instead of 1mm as well, with orange spring, then get a purple or gold spring later, and a sheave when I get the spare money.


As for getting a coop sheave, how do you go about doing that? how long does it usually take to get it back? and how much does he charge?
I run grease with no problem, but have run stock weights without grease for the same performance.
There may have been slightly more noise without grease, but as grease is cheap i decided to use it, just more sparingly than the factory.
For now I suggest you run the orange spring and try to get the belt to slip, is you cannot then the orange is enough for now.
Get in touch with Arnie Cooper with COOP45.com and he will tell you his schedule, most guy do without their sheave for a week, and if you want to pay the extra, he will get a new sheave, machine it and send it to you, so you do not stop riding, then you have two sheaves. He can tell you his prices this year, and he has always been a good deal.
You can send him your sheave for machining and he sends it back.
To know what is going on, remove the shim and count your stock pulley ratio before machining, then get the sheave back, add grease and the stock weights, count the ratio then let us know what you have, and want to change from there.
Ride that set-up for a good long day ride, then some shim in combination with machining and let us know what you find, then we can change the weight of the weights to change the engine speed if you want, then cut the cam plate for fine tuning later.
The trick is to get the ratio as high as possible, then make the other changes.

Jim,
Fast Green Convertible "06" 660 on 26" BH OG's with Stock Wheels.
COOP45 Primary, 1.5 mm shim, -1.5 mm belt, Purple Secondary Spring,
21 gram weights, weight covers reduced to 29 mm diameter and a 2 mm Cut Cam Plate.
2 heat range hotter plug, Warn Winch, Passenger Foot Rests, Rock Deflectors, Heated Grips and Hand Mitts,
Grab Strap, Cooling System Up-Grade and multiple position mirrors.
8040 miles, 812 hours on 1-1-15
Y.A.C.C. #43
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post #11 of 24 Old 07-01-2019, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgway81432 View Post
I run grease with no problem, but have run stock weights without grease for the same performance.
There may have been slightly more noise without grease, but as grease is cheap i decided to use it, just more sparingly than the factory.
For now I suggest you run the orange spring and try to get the belt to slip, is you cannot then the orange is enough for now.
Get in touch with Arnie Cooper with COOP45.com and he will tell you his schedule, most guy do without their sheave for a week, and if you want to pay the extra, he will get a new sheave, machine it and send it to you, so you do not stop riding, then you have two sheaves. He can tell you his prices this year, and he has always been a good deal.
You can send him your sheave for machining and he sends it back.
To know what is going on, remove the shim and count your stock pulley ratio before machining, then get the sheave back, add grease and the stock weights, count the ratio then let us know what you have, and want to change from there.
Ride that set-up for a good long day ride, then some shim in combination with machining and let us know what you find, then we can change the weight of the weights to change the engine speed if you want, then cut the cam plate for fine tuning later.
The trick is to get the ratio as high as possible, then make the other changes.

I put the orange spring back in, and gonna try 1.75mm shim instead of 1mm. I would do 1.5mm, but I gave my .5 to a friend. doh. Will have to get a set of those. I'm not sure when I'll do the machining, might be awhile. Just gonna change spring and shim around with new slugs and see how it does. I'm sure that will be fine for awhile until I want to go to a sheave. As for stock weights, I gave them away also, lol. But I do have 12g epi weights that came with a clutch kit that i never used, they are brand new, but came without the covers.... And the covers are 50 bucks. I will eventually get those as well.


Thanks for the tips! Will definitely try that all out when I get everything. I did count my ratio at one point, but forgot what it was. I could do it when I put everything back together today.

2014 Yamaha Grizzly 450 EPS Hunter Edition:



  • High Lifter 2 inch lift
  • 1.75mm Shim + Orange Secondary Spring + 18g OD Weights
  • 27 in Arisun Swamp Things on 14" Sedona Spyder wheels
  • JBS Wet clutch Slug Kit
  • Bison Brush guards
  • Side fender flares
  • HMF Performance Blackout exhaust + EHS Airbox Lid
  • Rox Risers Handlebar Kit + ODI Grips
  • PC Racing Flo steel oil filter
  • Tungsten 4x4 3000lbs winch
  • 12in Flood/Spot Combo LED + 5.5 Slim LED for Rear
  • Powermadd Sentinel hand guards with LED light kit
  • Aluminium Products - Full Body Skid plate + A-Arm Guards
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-03-2019, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridgway81432 View Post
I run grease with no problem, but have run stock weights without grease for the same performance.
There may have been slightly more noise without grease, but as grease is cheap i decided to use it, just more sparingly than the factory.
For now I suggest you run the orange spring and try to get the belt to slip, is you cannot then the orange is enough for now.
Get in touch with Arnie Cooper with COOP45.com and he will tell you his schedule, most guy do without their sheave for a week, and if you want to pay the extra, he will get a new sheave, machine it and send it to you, so you do not stop riding, then you have two sheaves. He can tell you his prices this year, and he has always been a good deal.
You can send him your sheave for machining and he sends it back.
To know what is going on, remove the shim and count your stock pulley ratio before machining, then get the sheave back, add grease and the stock weights, count the ratio then let us know what you have, and want to change from there.
Ride that set-up for a good long day ride, then some shim in combination with machining and let us know what you find, then we can change the weight of the weights to change the engine speed if you want, then cut the cam plate for fine tuning later.
The trick is to get the ratio as high as possible, then make the other changes.

Ratio is a follows:


2.4:1 - Orange Spring, 18g OD, No shim


2.8:1 - with +1.75mm shim


I haven't tested it yet, I'm going to try to put my front right end back together today. But I'm having a problem with getting the A-arms and Balljoints to line up properly for the axle to be at a normal angle. I put in new wheel bearings and new axles on both sides, but the right side is giving me problems getting it all back together. Something is just not lining up or angled right. The only culprit that I can find is the lower A arm, possibly bent...? The only thing is that the lower A arm looks fine! And the right side was fine before I did the bearings and axle. I originally thought it was the steering knuckle being bent, so I bought a whole new one, and same problem occured... The upper ball joint is not lining up enough for go in as easily as it should onto the steering knuckle. So, I'm in the process of finding out what's causing it. I'm gonna try disengaging 4wd properlly and put the axle back in and see if for some reason that will help, and that was the culprit. I'm hoping it is something that won't cost me money. Other than that being the issue, or it being the lower A arm, I'm at a loss for solutions.

2014 Yamaha Grizzly 450 EPS Hunter Edition:



  • High Lifter 2 inch lift
  • 1.75mm Shim + Orange Secondary Spring + 18g OD Weights
  • 27 in Arisun Swamp Things on 14" Sedona Spyder wheels
  • JBS Wet clutch Slug Kit
  • Bison Brush guards
  • Side fender flares
  • HMF Performance Blackout exhaust + EHS Airbox Lid
  • Rox Risers Handlebar Kit + ODI Grips
  • PC Racing Flo steel oil filter
  • Tungsten 4x4 3000lbs winch
  • 12in Flood/Spot Combo LED + 5.5 Slim LED for Rear
  • Powermadd Sentinel hand guards with LED light kit
  • Aluminium Products - Full Body Skid plate + A-Arm Guards

Last edited by Bperley; 07-03-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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post #13 of 24 Old 07-03-2019, 02:26 PM
 
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I recently put in new front axles and bearings on my 2014 450 and they were a bit tight but nothing bad enough that it wouldnt fit.the front left and right axles are different on the 2014s.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

2014 KODIAK 450 EPS
HL 2" lift
UNI Filter
Kimpex Outback Trunk
Kimpex Fender Protectors With Foot Pegs
BISON Trail Front and Rear Bumper
RICOCHET Skid Plate
27x9x12 27x11x12 Maxxis zillas
ITP SS212 Matte Black
YAMAHA Over Fenders
Heated Thumb and Grips
WARN 2500 LB Winch
Powermadd hand guards
NL lightbar 7.5inch
auxbeam 7inch
JBS Sheave and Blue Secondary
Spring With 14 Gram OD Weights + .5mm shim
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-05-2019, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by alextm33 View Post
I recently put in new front axles and bearings on my 2014 450 and they were a bit tight but nothing bad enough that it wouldnt fit.the front left and right axles are different on the 2014s.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

hrmm I figured there were the same. I ordered two rights, because I couldn't find the left one on amazon. But the things is the left one bolted everything up fine! without problem. But the right one wasn't allowing the upper ball joint to line up good, as intended... If i pouned it in there, then the axle would almost straighten out a bit and get bound up. Does that mean they sent me two lefts instead of rights? I'm gonna look up the part numbers and see what they match.


Also, I ordered the Sixity XT front right axles that showed for a 2011 yamaha grizzly 450... but the left one went in fine? Does this mean I should send them both back and try to find 2014's? I asked sixity company and they said that the 2014 use different ones from the 2011.

2014 Yamaha Grizzly 450 EPS Hunter Edition:



  • High Lifter 2 inch lift
  • 1.75mm Shim + Orange Secondary Spring + 18g OD Weights
  • 27 in Arisun Swamp Things on 14" Sedona Spyder wheels
  • JBS Wet clutch Slug Kit
  • Bison Brush guards
  • Side fender flares
  • HMF Performance Blackout exhaust + EHS Airbox Lid
  • Rox Risers Handlebar Kit + ODI Grips
  • PC Racing Flo steel oil filter
  • Tungsten 4x4 3000lbs winch
  • 12in Flood/Spot Combo LED + 5.5 Slim LED for Rear
  • Powermadd Sentinel hand guards with LED light kit
  • Aluminium Products - Full Body Skid plate + A-Arm Guards

Last edited by Bperley; 07-05-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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post #15 of 24 Old 07-05-2019, 01:53 PM
 
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I ordered the right online but had to go to the dealer for the left as I couldn't find either one online.i never actually measured the difference but I will this weekend.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

2014 KODIAK 450 EPS
HL 2" lift
UNI Filter
Kimpex Outback Trunk
Kimpex Fender Protectors With Foot Pegs
BISON Trail Front and Rear Bumper
RICOCHET Skid Plate
27x9x12 27x11x12 Maxxis zillas
ITP SS212 Matte Black
YAMAHA Over Fenders
Heated Thumb and Grips
WARN 2500 LB Winch
Powermadd hand guards
NL lightbar 7.5inch
auxbeam 7inch
JBS Sheave and Blue Secondary
Spring With 14 Gram OD Weights + .5mm shim
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