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Discussion Starter #1
It all started with exploring the on-line Yamaha Parts Catalog. After finding the plate under the right front fender (see picture) I used the VIN number that's on it. But didn't work because: VIN number invalid.
As this number is also on my invoice I asked my dealer and he said: "You've got a new VIN because the Grizzly is now street legal so you have two now but only one will work"
Rather odd, two VIN's. Ok looked up the VIN that's on the frame (easy to find and to read >:)) First I couldn't find it because it was covered with black tape.
So I used that VIN in the catalog and it worked! And ...... there was more to see, my Grizzly turned out to be a MY2018 (already edited my signature) and not a MY2017 as written on the invoice. Didn't tell my dealer though because the prices for the MY2018 are higher than for the MY2017 :wink2:.

But the question now is what do I own?

1. A Grizzly 700 EPS MY2018?

or

2. A Quaddy QDY KDK AG?

Know what, I'll mix these two so I own a Yamaquaddyha QDY KDK AG 700 EPS MY2018.
And it has a VIN and a VIN number. It should only have a VIN but I already have read on this forum that a lot of you also have a VIN number instead of a VIN :wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2: (I hope not too difficult to understand what I mean .......)
But what I still don't have after 4 weeks is my license plate and to be honest I have had it with driving around in circles in my backyard!

Rob
 

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I still don't have after 4 weeks is my license plate and to be honest I have had it with driving around in circles in my backyard!Rob
They can't get YAMAQUADDYHA on one plate, you may have to shorten that up:)
 

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Wow, 2 VIN's, strange way of doing things, I'd like a 2nd opinion just to be sure so no hiccups occur, I've had a bit to do with rego's & VINs on bikes in Aust. & 2 VINs would send our systems into a tailspin with finger pointing & stormtroopers involved, but that's probably just us 0:)
 

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But the question now is what do I own?

1. A Grizzly 700 EPS MY2018?

or

2. A Quaddy QDY KDK AG?

Know what, I'll mix these two so I own a Yamaquaddyha QDY KDK AG 700 EPS MY2018.
And it has a VIN and a VIN number. It should only have a VIN but I already have read on this forum that a lot of you also have a VIN number instead of a VIN :wink2::wink2::wink2::wink2: (I hope not too difficult to understand what I mean .......)
But what I still don't have after 4 weeks is my license plate and to be honest I have had it with driving around in circles in my backyard!

Rob
OMG what a relief - I thought it is only possible in Poland.

In Oct 16 I have bought Yamaha Grizzly 700 EPS Camo - brand new, all shiny and smiling from official Yamaha Dealers in Poland. Enjoyed riding it for a year. In Oct 17 I needed to have my Grizz inspected - kind of MOT or TUV - by the authorized garage (EU/Polish regulations).
So I packed my Teddy on the trailer, told my wife - be right back honey and took off.
Arrived happily at the inspection station where Masta Insector took a glance at my Grizzly and said: well Sir I am afraid I am forced to keep your ride's documents and call the police because I see two different VIN numbers on both sides of the vehicle and that's against the law.

To cut long story short - in EU any new vehicle which is sold/registered in any of the member states of EU needs to get an official approval that it meets EU standards, etc. However every member state Poland/Germany/Portugal/etc have totally different requirements regarding such an approval - but every member state has to accept an approval of any other member state - I know it is totally f...ed up, so don't ask me why.

So gentlemen from Yamaha BV Netherlands (Yamaha HQ in EU I believe) buy Grizzlies built in US, bring them to Italy to Quaddy. Now Quaddy is a producer of vehicles called Quaddy which are approved for public road usage in Italy = in EU. So boys from Quaddy take US built Grizz, bolt on some indicator lights, registration plate lights and some more useless sh..t. At the end of this sophisticated process they put a new Quaddy VIN number on the right sight on the frame and Quaddy sticker. This way Yamaha becomes Quaddy. In my registration document - it does not say Yamaha Grizzly - but Quaddy KDK.

When I asked Yamaha what should I do - they told me to bring the quad to their dealers and they will solve the issue, and when I asked how - they replied, they would remove original US VIN on the left side and leave the Quaddy VIN. My lawyer replied to that - that removing any legal defect by using an angle grinder usually results in 3-5 years imprisonment

Today my Grizzly sits in my garage, I can't ride it as it can't pass inspection, can't sell it and my lawyer is fighting with idiots from Yamaha.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
For various reasons I'm very very very happy with your post. But for this moment I don't go too deep into the details why I'm so happy because I still haven't got my license plate and the registration document(s) (almost 6 weeks waiting now :devil::devil: )
The moment I have them I will have a very good look to see what's on the registration paper(s): Grizzly or Quaddy? I expect that it will be Quaddy.
One thing is for sure already: I'm gonna write to Yamaha Motor Europe (Amsterdam, The Netherlands) because I demand (!) a very clear explanation on how exactly the 'transformation' from Yamaha Grizzly -> Quaddy KDK works. I have the advantage that I can write in my own language (Dutch) to them so I can make them as clear as clear can be what I want to know! Espacially how THEY (!!!!) , gonna solve the "2 VIN problem". And I want to have the whole procedure of this official 'tranformation' on paper! An official document in which Yamaha Motor Europe declares that there is nothing illegal with my "Pastel Deep Green-two-VIN-thing".
Until now there is no yearly inspection for bike's and ATV's in Portugal (neither in the Netherlands) but they're working on it and I'm sure I gonna have the same problems as you if the inspector sees the 2 VIN's!

This is all for the moment.

Rob
 

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Well Rob - I wish you best of luck with your plan. However I am afraid I can already answer your letter despite the only word in Dutch I know is Heineken. It will be something like: Dear Mr. Rob - in accordance to EU regulation no 234/1989 and 456/2001 it is all cool so please take it easy.

My and my lawyers we have spent already 3 months exchanging letters with Yamaha Poland a daughter company of Yamaha Netherlands.
At the end the answer I got is 6 pages of legal/bureaucratic bulls...t which absolutely does not refer to a particular vehicle of mine. The letter contains loads of crap and refers to numerous EU regulations - but does not mention a word of specific Grizzly/Quaddy I own.

The letter mentions that VIN on the left (original US) is not a VIN but a internal catalog number of Yamaha which helps to define necessary parts etc. But when I asked them to send us a letter which will refer to my quad VIN no. XXXXXXXX - they never came back.

I can send you the letter Yamaha sent me - but it is in Polish, so I doubt it would be of any use for you.
My lawyers say that all quad registrations in EU are kind of grey zone - so even if we sued Yamaha - the result is unpredictable.

Anyway I am very much interested to see what Yamaha Netherlands will answer.
 
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Hi there!

I just checked mine because I'm in Spain and RobPt in Portugal so it's very possible something similar could happen.

The VIN in my Grizzly is the same as in the invoice and the registration license. Good. However I remember that I was riding with a provisional plate for two months (white numbers, green background) because the dealer had to standardize the Grizzly with the spanish authorities (they said). I think my dealer is the only one doing that for all Yamahas sold in Spain (so instead of this Quaddy company in Italy) because on the papers it says "Manufacturer of the base vehicle: Yamaha Motor Co. Ltd." and "Manufacturer of the complete vehicle: my dealer name".

It's a YFM700FWAD (no GPXJ or anything similar, just AMA8W), Model Year 2016 (bought february 2017) and there is a sticker near the front left wheel with the CE mark that says YFM700FWAD 36.0kW 314 kg 2UD-F155A-10. Funny thing is 2UD number does not match the number on the manual and I can't find the correct manual on the internet.

Guess I'm lucky I can ride it!
 
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Good god almighty there. People look at me like I have two heads when I rail about the population (us) allowing the modern version of the Gestapo to completely erase all rights and sense from our lives. It's coming everywhere. Man, good luck guys.
 
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
.... It's a YFM700FWAD (no GPXJ or anything similar, just AMA8W), Model Year 2016 (bought february 2017) and there is a sticker near the front left wheel with the CE mark that says YFM700FWAD 36.0kW 314 kg 2UD-F155A-10. Funny thing is 2UD number does not match the number on the manual and I can't find the correct manual on the internet.
I think that you have a Model Year 2017 ! On my invoice is stated Model Year 2017 but when I looked into the electronic Yamaha Parts Catalog and put in the original Yamaha VIN it turned out to be a Model Year 2018.
As you bought yours in february 2017 it's very plausible that yours is actually a Model Year 2017. Don't get confused by the Year of construction and the Model Year! They are not always the same!
Most manufacturers (cars and bikes) start building the new Model Year after the summerholidays (july, august), sometimes even earlier. So when you buy a new car or bike more than 5 months after august it's very likely that it is already the new Model Year. Unless you get one that has been in stock at the dealer or importer for a long time. A lot of times this happens with colors or models that nobody wants to buy except ........... you! :laugh:
I bought mine in december 2017 and that is only 3 month after august so ..............

Therefore I suggest that, if you have not already done so, go to the Catálogo Piezas Online, choose for "ATV & SSV & ROV" --> put in your Yamaha VIN and see what it says under "Año del modelo". If it turned out to be a Model Year 2017 go to Yamaha Motor España. And in the following order choose: SERVICIOS --> Manuales de propietario and from there it's very easy.
After downloading the PDF-file, open it and there on page 1 - 3 it is, your sticker: YFM700FWAD 36.0 kW 314 kg 2UD-F155A-10 :surprise: So I suppose that this manual is the right one for you.
The 'funny' thing is that on page 1 - 9 there's an explanation about what's on the sticker but not about what the number 2UD-F155A-10 stands for ..... I have 2UD-F155A-20 and this number does not match either with the number that's on the frontpage of the manual that came with the Grizzly! So I haven't got the slightest idea what the number stands for.

Yamaha numbers? Rocket science at the highest level! :laugh::laugh:

Hope this helps you.

Rob
 

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Hi Rob! Thanks a lot, it helps me very much indeed.

When I check the "Catalogo Piezas Online" and I put my VIN I get name of model YFM700FWAD/YFM70GPXH/GRIZZLY700EPS model year 2017 model type code B1A1 color B (pastel deep green):

http://www.grizzlycentral.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62474&thumb=1

But if I check vindecoder.eu I get model year 2016:

http://www.grizzlycentral.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62482&thumb=1

This one must be wrong.

Now in Yamaha Motor Spain when looking for the manual I have checked 2016, 2017 and 2018. I found my sticker on the 2017 manual, and I found yours on the 2018 manual.

So definitely yours is model year 2018 (YFM70GPXJ) and mine 2017 (YFM70GPXH/YFM70GPAH/YFM70GPHH, impossible to tell which one, so according to the Catalogo Piezas it must be a GPXH).

I have a Japanese supplier and I know sometimes they make things too complicated but this is way too much.

By the way, why don't you just go riding out of your property? I don't know there, but here it is very unlikely you find some kind of police unless you ride on paved roads. And even if you do find them I don't think they will stop you, even without a registration on the ATV.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
... Thanks a lot, it helps me very much indeed.
By the way, why don't you just go riding out of your property? I don't know there, but here it is very unlikely you find some kind of police unless you ride on paved roads. And even if you do find them I don't think they will stop you, even without a registration on the ATV.
You're welcome, that is what a forum for, isn't it? :wink2:

But you still have some work to do by changing your signature because now you are the proud owner of a 2017 Grizzly ..... :laugh:

Riding outside my property? No, this is Portugal you know. Not only paved roads are public roads (registration/license plate obligated) but also almost all unpaved roads. To ride outside my property I only can do that on unpaved 'public roads'. I don't have a segurance at the moment because I can't provide my segurance agent with the data he needs and ........ I still have the 12 points on my drivers licence and want to keep it that way!
And the police (GNR = Guarda Nacional Republicana)? Those guys are always there where you don't expect them and of course always at the moments you don't need them ...........
In our region those guys are driving around in their 30 years old Nissans Patrol and are fond of doing some 'serious' off-roading ........... :grin2::grin2::grin2:

Rob
 

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But you still have some work to do by changing your signature because now you are the proud owner of a 2017 Grizzly ..... :laugh:


Done!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Gents.

My grizzly has 2 Vins on the frame - on the left hand side near front wheel hub an original US VIN. On the right hand side also not far from the front wheel hub an Italian Quaddy Vin.

Both can be decoded and both look valid.

However I have also hired an automotive expert who told me following thing. There are cases of several production steps in the automotive industry, eg. BMW and Alpina. Alpina takes an original BMW, do their tuning with it and place their own VIN number. BUT they cross out (XXXXXXXXX) an original BMW VIN and produce a paper covering it. Similar story happens to Hobby camper vans built on Fiat/Ford/whatever trucks. But again original VIN is supposed to be crossed.

On my behalf my expert contacted Quaddy - and they replied that their understanding is that In EU VIN numbers must be placed on the right hand side of the vehicle - and the one on the left is just a product number (please see attached file).

My plan as per today is - I will take all those papers and try to get it inspected once again. If it passes - I'm going to buy a bottle of wine and celebrate. If it fails - I will burn mother.....r and claim reimbursement from the insurers :D
 

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OT: to US citizens - guys could you be so kind and tell me in which US states it is legal and possible to have a quad registered for use on public paved and unpaved roads? Thx
 

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Discussion Starter #15
....On my behalf my expert contacted Quaddy - and they replied that their understanding is that In EU VIN numbers must be placed on the right hand side of the vehicle - and the one on the left is just a product number (please see attached file).
Yes that's old stuff that the VIN should be on the right side of the vehicle. You can find that in: ROZPORZĄDZENIE KOMISJI (UE) NR 19/2011 z dnia 11 stycznia 2011 r.

Would have been nice if the people that confiscated your registration papers had read that first before they took any action.

So just for them: ROZPORZĄDZENIE KOMISJI (UE) NR 19/2011 z dnia 11 stycznia 2011 r.--> ZAŁĄCZNIK II --> CZĘŚĆ B Numer identyfikacyjny pojazdu (VIN) :

1. VIN nanosi się w jednym wierszu.
1.1 W przypadku gdy, z przyczyn technicznych, takich jak brak miejsca, VIN nie może zostać naniesiony w jednym wierszu, organ krajowy może, na wniosek producenta, dopuścić naniesienie VIN w dwóch wierszach. W takim przypadku w obrębie członów, o których mowa w pkt 2.1 części B załącznika I, nie mogą występować przerwy.
2. VIN nanosi się na podwoziu, na ramie lub na innej podobnej części poprzez wytłaczanie bądź wybijanie.
3. Zamiast wybijania wykorzystywane mogą być wszelkie inne techniki, co do których dowiedziono, że zapewniają taki sam poziom odporności na manipulacje przez osoby niepowołane lub na fałszerstwo.
4. VIN umieszcza się w miejscu wyraźnie widocznym i dostępnym. Umiejscowienie takie wybiera się tak, aby VIN nie mógł zostać zasłonięty lub ulec zniszczeniu.
5. VIN umieszcza się po prawej stronie pojazdu.

I don't believe that the number on the left side of the vehicle is just a "production code" as stated in the letter from Quaddy because:

ZAŁĄCZNIK I --> CZĘŚĆ B Numer identyfikacyjny pojazdu (VIN) --> 1.3 VIN umieszcza się na podwoziu lub na pojeździe w momencie, gdy samochód opuszcza linię produkcyjną.

As that is the only number I could find marked (stamped in) on the chassis, a frame tube in this case, that must have been done in the Yamaha factory before it left the production line. So I'm sure that it is the VIN of the Grizzly and not just a "product code"!

I do hope that our US/Canadian friends can tell us if that number at the leftside of the Grizzly is used as the VIN on their registration papers in case of a street legal Grizzly?

But I have the nasty habit of saving the 'funny things" until the end! All the above complies to the vehicle categories M, N and O. (Article 1 ; Scope ; This Regulation applies to complete and incomplete vehicles of categories M, N and O.

And what do I read here?

Vehicle categories

EU law divides motor vehicles and trailers into 4 broad categories.

Category L
Mopeds and motorbikes, as well as all-terrain vehicles (quads) and other small vehicles with 3 or 4 wheels.
Within category L, motorbikes are further subdivided into 2 groups (with and without sidecars). There is also a subdivision for mopeds with 3 wheels, which have smaller engines and lower top speeds than motor tricycles.

Category M
Vehicles with at least 4 wheels designed to carry passengers - essentially, cars.

Category N
Vehicles designed to carry goods, grouped by size. Essentially lorries and vans.

Category O
Trailers and semitrailers.

I can't help it but I consider this as "very funny" ......... :grin2:

Rob
 

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Rob WOW! I am impressed with your efforts & precise analyze. And regulations in Polish - great job!!!

Since I have been working on the issue for a while now I will summarize facts and then possible solutions based on my research and findings over past 2-3 months.

1. My Grizzly has 2 numbers on the frame left (US) right (ITA)
2. ITA vin is shown on the identification plate mounted on the right hand side.
3. Only ITA vin is shown on registration documents
4. There is EU approval number shown on registration docs.
5. As per registration docs my Quad is L7e type.

Now the fun part starts. Dealer during registration process presented:
1. Quaddy Cert. of Conformity
2. Yamaha STATEMENT referring to Quaddy ITA vin no. with EU approval no. and explanation that such an approval is complying with EU reg. 168/2013

So in fact Yamaha sold Yamaha Grizzly 700 EPS Camo. Delivered a quad which looks like Yamaha Grizzly 700 EPS Camo and registered it as Quaddy KDK using vin, certi. of conformity and all other relevant docs supplied by Quaddy who appears in the docs as a MANUFACTURER!!!

As I already mentioned in my previous posts asking Yamaha for an explanation resulted in a 7 pages letter referring to all regulations you and me have mentioned in this thread but not mentioning a single word about this very vehicle nor who the producer is. They letter explains that the definition of the producer/manufacturer is wide and complex and multi dimensional, etc, etc, etc. In other words nothing concrete.

Now as per my understanding - WHAT CAN I POSSIBLY DO?
1. Go the easy way. Take all above mentioned docs delivered by Yamaha and a paper produced by the expert hired by me. The latter stipulates that basis presented docs there is no ground for the Inspection do reject the vehicle and 2 vin quad should pass the inspection. This way there is a chance that Herr Inspector will produce a positive decision - but it will probably close any potential possibility of a claim towards Yamaha. This way I will stay in a grey zone - will be covered by all those papers and will be able to enjoy riding my Grizz.

2. Go the hard way. It is possible to undermine the decision of Polish authorities granting a registration of my Quad. But then the bumpy road starts - because, no regulation I am aware of stipulates that a vehicle MUST NOT have 2 VIN numbers. I know it sounds ridiculously but all regulations say VIN must allow an identification of the vehicle. I would have to prove that A. quad must not have 2 VIN numbers, B. Yamaha did not deliver the product specified in the contract.

Qte
(EU 2015/208)
4. Vehicle Identification Number

The vehicle identification number is a fixed combination of characters unequivocally attributed to a particular vehicle by the manufacturer. Its purpose is to ensure that every vehicle, and in particular its type, can be clearly identified over a period of 30 years through the intermediary of the manufacturer, without a need for further reference.
The identification number shall comply with the following requirements:
4.1.
The VIN shall be marked on the statutory plate, as well as on the chassis, frame or a similar structure of the vehicle when the vehicle leaves the production line.
4.2.
It shall wherever possible be entered on a single line.
4.3.
It shall be marked on the chassis or other similar structure, on the front right-hand side of the vehicle.
4.4.
It shall be hammered, punched, etched or laser-engraved directly onto an easily accessible part, preferably on the front right side of the vehicle in a way which avoids obliteration, alteration and removal.
Uqte.

The regulation says - vehicle must be marked so it can be clearly identified. Well it is - it bears ITA vin and it is also shown in the docs. It does not say that vehicle needs to have only ONE vin number.

Is it Yamaha or is it Quaddy - well it is both, because the definition of the producer analyzed form the perspective of multiple manufacturing steps is so wide......= several years in the court of justice, and probably the only winners will be the lawyers.

And from your post : ZAŁĄCZNIK I --> CZĘŚĆ B Numer identyfikacyjny pojazdu (VIN) --> 1.3 VIN umieszcza się na podwoziu lub na pojeździe w momencie, gdy samochód opuszcza linię produkcyjną. (VIN is placed when the vehicle leaves a production line.) - it is OK - vehicle leaves Quaddy production line in 2nd step production process and gets VIN.

So my current position is that I'd try to force positive inspection result rather than enter a legal battle, because I'm not sure if I want to become Don Quixote of the automotive market. I know if I was a tough Pole with a balls of steel I would fight till the last drop of my blood - especially I feel i am right and all those Yamaha abracadabra tricks are just unfair. But I am already old enough to understand that there are much nicer ways of spending my time and money.

However I would like to encourage you to start putting on pressure on Yamaha Netherlands - If you get any positive result and will be willing to share it with me - I'll appreciate very much.

One thing I am sure of - Yamah Netherlands will be fighting till the very last drop of blood - because if the lost, they will face numerous claims from all EU. That would be very painful for them.
 
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