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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2011 grizzly 550 and was shopping For a new Kodiak 700. I plow snow ,hunt, and do yard work with my ATV. Not much aggressive trail riding .I Been told that the Kodiak was the machine for me. I did some research and was planning on ordering a 2022 Kodiak. Then a 2020 grizzly came up for sale locally 35 hours and 250miles. Got it at a preet fair price .
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I figured I better grab it and save some money from the dealers. . This brings up the question should I change the weight to match the Kodaik ?

1. It the clutch weights the only different in the gearing or is there some mapping done also?
2. How hard is to do this?
 

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Grizzled Moderator
2014 Yamaha Grizzly 700 EPS
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Leave it as is and use/ride it. Then make a decision. I personally wouldn't bother changing the rollers to heavier ones that are on the Kodiak. Many go the other way when they bought a Kodiak 700 and change to Grizzly lighter rollers. I use my Grizzly 700 for plowing and some work around the house but probably not as much work as maybe you intend. I see 0 reason to consider having different weight rollers and I've also optimized for trail riding.

It's not hard to change out the rollers but I'd youtube it first to see what's involved. Everything else, concerning gearing, is supposed to be identical between the Grizzly 700 and Kodiak 700.
 
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My thought is, and not to start an argument.....you got luck the Griz came available before you got the Kodi.
There are many reasons for c.v.t. mods, for the focus can be for less strain on the wet-clutch while going slow pushing snow. The stock c.v.t. engineering is for the average, moderate rider, and can be easily changed for more aggressive use sand smoother performance.
The previous owner of you 700 didn't need more low end pull, but you might want more so.....
The weights are the wrong part/place in the system to focus on first with c.v.t. mods. At zero speed (take-off) the weight of the weights doesn't matter, but what does matter is the pulley ratio which can be easily raised with $20 worth of shims and a little time. Once you learn the new feel from your butt dyno and want more of the 'Feel Good' know a machined movable sheave is also easy to have done and install your self.
If you go that far and the belt is slipping by your use and conditions, a simple, $30, secondary spring change is also easy to do.
As mentioned above, ride it awhile first to see if you want more low end, and if you do let us know and ask questions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
My thought is, and not to start an argument.....you got luck the Griz came available before you got the Kodi.
There are many reasons for c.v.t. mods, for the focus can be for less strain on the wet-clutch while going slow pushing snow. The stock c.v.t. engineering is for the average, moderate rider, and can be easily changed for more aggressive use sand smoother performance.
The previous owner of you 700 didn't need more low end pull, but you might want more so.....
The weights are the wrong part/place in the system to focus on first with c.v.t. mods. At zero speed (take-off) the weight of the weights doesn't matter, but what does matter is the pulley ratio which can be easily raised with $20 worth of shims and a little time. Once you learn the new feel from your butt dyno and want more of the 'Feel Good' know a machined movable sheave is also easy to have done and install your self.
If you go that far and the belt is slipping by your use and conditions, a simple, $30, secondary spring change is also easy to do.
As mentioned above, ride it awhile first to see if you want more low end, and if you do let us know and ask questions.
I am new to these clutching mods so bare with me. so what you saying if i shim the front pulley it would allow the belt to sit in there deeper resulting in a lower gear at start up. correct? so what will the heaver rollers due? Yamaha markets that Kodiak as the work horse and grizzly has a trail machine.Originally when i started looking I was looking at The Kodiak as its close to my My 550 grizzly there about the same size and same turning radius. I been happy with the over the years.. Your probably right i was lucky to come across the grizzly. as I ended up with a slightly used grizzy for less cost than new kodiak.I considered a new 2022 grizz, But only base color of yellow and grey was not for me. I dint want to pay for camo.
 

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2014 Yamaha Grizzly 700 EPS
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As a first step, if you haven't watched this Yamaha Ultramatic video, watch it as it really helps to understand how the Ultramatic CVT system works.

Yes, you are correct in that shims widen the distance between the primary fixed and primary moveable sheaves, allowing the belt to sit slightly lower, thus changing the ratio. Jim has been messing with the Yamaha Ultramatic for years and is one of the resident experts as he has experimented with different configurations of the Yamaha Ultramatic on his machine. His different configurations have exposed different outcomes so keep in mind there is not a one size fits all as he will tell you. There are also a number of other resident CVT experts on here that can provide great input as well.

What seems to be generally accepted is the Kodiak 700 size, suspension, turning radius is very similar to the 2007-2013 Grizzly 700 and 2009-2014 Grizzly 550 as all of those models have maintained the same frame and style suspension. In 2014, the Grizzly 700, and only the 700, got wider suspension but still used the same frame through 2015, the Grizzly 550 was discontinued for 2015. In 2016 the Grizzly 700 got a new frame but used pretty close to the same suspension setup from the Grizzly 700 2014/15. The new 2016 frame accommodated new plastics, new air filter, different fuel tank, new POD, different seating position and a different engine, the 708cc. 2019+ saw a return to a Grizzly 700 (686cc) that is very similar to the 2014/15 Grizzly 700 but does have a different frame part, different POD along with maintaining the other changes that occurred in 2016. All of that is the quick and dirty on machine size, suspension and turning radius over the span of the Grizzly 700 so far. There are more specifics details, what I listed is more a high level view of the changes over the years.


Yamaha Ultramatic® CVT Transmission
 
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I am new to these clutching mods so bare with me. so what you saying if i shim the front pulley it would allow the belt to sit in there deeper resulting in a lower gear at start up. correct? so what will the heaver rollers due? Yamaha markets that Kodiak as the work horse and grizzly has a trail machine.Originally when i started looking I was looking at The Kodiak as its close to my My 550 grizzly there about the same size and same turning radius. I been happy with the over the years.. Your probably right i was lucky to come across the grizzly. as I ended up with a slightly used grizzy for less cost than new kodiak.I considered a new 2022 grizz, But only base color of yellow and grey was not for me. I dint want to pay for camo.
:) Ok.....
I'm glad RedRocket linked you that video, I forgot about it and;
That video is probably the best visual for those starting to think about c.v.t. mods as it let's you get an idea of how the different parts work as a system that seems to float smoothly thus the term automatic.
For some reason most new to this system refer to it as a clutching system, and this seems to confuse people and get them thinking there is something slipping normally.
In truth we are working on two pulleys that are in two pieces with each half called a sheave. Splitting the pulleys allows for the variable distance between the sheave faces the belt rides on and this might be what generates the comparison thinking to an automatic gear shifting system we use in other vehicles.
Both pulleys are bolted in place on a shaft with a spring on the secondary (rear) shaft separating each sheave, with a nut retaining the sheaves of both pulleys on each shaft. As the belt does not stretch, the squish tension forcing the secondary sheaves together makes the belt want to ride high on the secondary pulley thus forcing (pulling) the belt deep into the primary pulley.
At zero ground speed with the pulleys not turning, the primary sheaves are spread to their widest distance gap allowed and the secondary sheaves are squish closed to their narrowest distance gap then;
Once the primary pulley starts to turn the side force squish tension of the secondary spring keeps the belt from slipping, keeping the belt tight in the primary to transfer power to the secondary pulley hooked to the transmission.
As ground speed (wheel spin rate) increases the secondary spins faster from an increase in the rotational spin rate of the primary pulley as the engine r.p.m.'s increase, and this rotational force causes the weights inside the movable primary sheave to slide outward, toward the outer edge of the weight channels, being rubbed against the cam-plate bolted to the primary shaft with a wet-clutch on the other end. The only clutch in this Yamaha drive system is lubricated with engine oil, and the c.v.t. pulleys are not.
Remember a rock on the end of a string, the fast you can get it spinning around your head the further the rock gets away from the center of axis (the other end of the string).
As all stock dimension Yamaha weights are the same diameter when new, only the weight of the weights vary, at rest simply changing the weight of the weights does not change the pulley ratio in the system, so there is no difference in low end pull from zero ground speed; but once the pulley system starts to turn heavier weights will start to move against the cam-plate at lower engine r.p.m.'s and lighter weights will take more engine r.p.m.'s to start the weights moving. This is correct when using the same spring with both weight sets, changing the secondary spring changes how the weights move, and for this reason remember when doing c.v.t. mods always do one mod at a time to learn what that part of the system does.
Now here's the deal; we are not modifying the engine/air pump for more power, we are relying on drive-line system modifications to magnify the stock engine power produced. We are changing internally lubricated parts, we are changing parts outside the engine.
Engine builders know from physics torque can be multiplied/magnified and horse power cannot be magnified. That's why N.H.R.A. top fuel cars take off at very high engine r.p.m.'s and let a computer controlled clutch pack slip. These car chiefs rely on the horse power curve to drive the car which is the exact opposite of what we do with the Yamaha grizzly drive line.
We rely on the low engine r.p.m. torque to drive the machine, and to get more feel good in your butt dyno we raise the pulley ration by increasing the distance between the primary sheaves at the lowest engine r.p.m.'s as the wet-clutch shoes start to engage the primary shaft drum.
This can be done with shims or machining or like I did, by reducing the actual diameter of a set of weight covers.....anything to cause a greater distance between the primary sheave faces. If you only do the weights you're trying to sling the weights with stock non-magnified torque, so when you find the system reacts sluggishly you'll know why. This is also the type of result from installing taller tires which reduces the low end pull feel of a grizzly. The taller tires change the gearing ratio of the drive system and make the machine sluggish. On a side note, if you install 11% taller tires, raising the pulley 11% will restore the stock low end performance feel with the taller tires installed. If you can raise the ratio more than that 11%, the grizzly will feel better than stock.
As you do more and ratio gets bigger eventually you max out the ratio for the best increase in low end pull from a stock air pump configuration. This is extremely important for those wanting to go further with additional c.v.t. mods, to stay away from internal engine/air pump mods, for other benefits like lower engine r.p.m.'s when cruising to generate much higher m.p.g. for greater distance covered on a tank of gas, or maybe higher ground speed than stock.
As for how Yamaha markets their products, most pitchmen make $hit up to sell what they have, and as I've never seen anything from Yamaha's engineering department on a supposed gearing difference or whatever, I feel the Kodi is more a bargain basement offering for those willing to take less to pay less. I have read posts that the difference in size between the knees was a deciding factor, OK....but I have had riders on my 660 that were just over 5' tall and they didn't have a problem with the size, and wouldn't come back to camp until the low fuel bar started to flash. There is an ass for every seat, get what you want.
If you want to try different mods to your system, knock your lights out but keep the old parts if you make a mistake so you can get the system back to stock. Back in the day I had to go back to stock a few times to figure out why the mod results didn't match my goal.
Let us know how deep you want to get into c.v.t. mods.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
As a first step, if you haven't watched this Yamaha Ultramatic video, watch it as it really helps to understand how the Ultramatic CVT system works.

Yes, you are correct in that shims widen the distance between the primary fixed and primary moveable sheaves, allowing the belt to sit slightly lower, thus changing the ratio. Jim has been messing with the Yamaha Ultramatic for years and is one of the resident experts as he has experimented with different configurations of the Yamaha Ultramatic on his machine. His different configurations have exposed different outcomes so keep in mind there is not a one size fits all as he will tell you. There are also a number of other resident CVT experts on here that can provide great input as well.

What seems to be generally accepted is the Kodiak 700 size, suspension, turning radius is very similar to the 2007-2013 Grizzly 700 and 2009-2014 Grizzly 550 as all of those models have maintained the same frame and style suspension. In 2014, the Grizzly 700, and only the 700, got wider suspension but still used the same frame through 2015, the Grizzly 550 was discontinued for 2015. In 2016 the Grizzly 700 got a new frame but used pretty close to the same suspension setup from the Grizzly 700 2014/15. The new 2016 frame accommodated new plastics, new air filter, different fuel tank, new POD, different seating position and a different engine, the 708cc. 2019+ saw a return to a Grizzly 700 (686cc) that is very similar to the 2014/15 Grizzly 700 but does have a different frame part, different POD along with maintaining the other changes that occurred in 2016. All of that is the quick and dirty on machine size, suspension and turning radius over the span of the Grizzly 700 so far. There are more specifics details, what I listed is more a high level view of the changes over the years.


Yamaha Ultramatic® CVT Transmission
The video is very helpfull. On one hand I was feel stupid for not understanding these CVT systems better. on the other hand it nice that i owned one for years and haven't had to learn about it.
:) Ok.....
I'm glad RedRocket linked you that video, I forgot about it and;
That video is probably the best visual for those starting to think about c.v.t. mods as it let's you get an idea of how the different parts work as a system that seems to float smoothly thus the term automatic.
For some reason most new to this system refer to it as a clutching system, and this seems to confuse people and get them thinking there is something slipping normally.
In truth we are working on two pulleys that are in two pieces with each half called a sheave. Splitting the pulleys allows for the variable distance between the sheave faces the belt rides on and this might be what generates the comparison thinking to an automatic gear shifting system we use in other vehicles.
Both pulleys are bolted in place on a shaft with a spring on the secondary (rear) shaft separating each sheave, with a nut retaining the sheaves of both pulleys on each shaft. As the belt does not stretch, the squish tension forcing the secondary sheaves together makes the belt want to ride high on the secondary pulley thus forcing (pulling) the belt deep into the primary pulley.
At zero ground speed with the pulleys not turning, the primary sheaves are spread to their widest distance gap allowed and the secondary sheaves are squish closed to their narrowest distance gap then;
Once the primary pulley starts to turn the side force squish tension of the secondary spring keeps the belt from slipping, keeping the belt tight in the primary to transfer power to the secondary pulley hooked to the transmission.
As ground speed (wheel spin rate) increases the secondary spins faster from an increase in the rotational spin rate of the primary pulley as the engine r.p.m.'s increase, and this rotational force causes the weights inside the movable primary sheave to slide outward, toward the outer edge of the weight channels, being rubbed against the cam-plate bolted to the primary shaft with a wet-clutch on the other end. The only clutch in this Yamaha drive system is lubricated with engine oil, and the c.v.t. pulleys are not.
Remember a rock on the end of a string, the fast you can get it spinning around your head the further the rock gets away from the center of axis (the other end of the string).
As all stock dimension Yamaha weights are the same diameter when new, only the weight of the weights vary, at rest simply changing the weight of the weights does not change the pulley ratio in the system, so there is no difference in low end pull from zero ground speed; but once the pulley system starts to turn heavier weights will start to move against the cam-plate at lower engine r.p.m.'s and lighter weights will take more engine r.p.m.'s to start the weights moving. This is correct when using the same spring with both weight sets, changing the secondary spring changes how the weights move, and for this reason remember when doing c.v.t. mods always do one mod at a time to learn what that part of the system does.
Now here's the deal; we are not modifying the engine/air pump for more power, we are relying on drive-line system modifications to magnify the stock engine power produced. We are changing internally lubricated parts, we are changing parts outside the engine.
Engine builders know from physics torque can be multiplied/magnified and horse power cannot be magnified. That's why N.H.R.A. top fuel cars take off at very high engine r.p.m.'s and let a computer controlled clutch pack slip. These car chiefs rely on the horse power curve to drive the car which is the exact opposite of what we do with the Yamaha grizzly drive line.
We rely on the low engine r.p.m. torque to drive the machine, and to get more feel good in your butt dyno we raise the pulley ration by increasing the distance between the primary sheaves at the lowest engine r.p.m.'s as the wet-clutch shoes start to engage the primary shaft drum.
This can be done with shims or machining or like I did, by reducing the actual diameter of a set of weight covers.....anything to cause a greater distance between the primary sheave faces. If you only do the weights you're trying to sling the weights with stock non-magnified torque, so when you find the system reacts sluggishly you'll know why. This is also the type of result from installing taller tires which reduces the low end pull feel of a grizzly. The taller tires change the gearing ratio of the drive system and make the machine sluggish. On a side note, if you install 11% taller tires, raising the pulley 11% will restore the stock low end performance feel with the taller tires installed. If you can raise the ratio more than that 11%, the grizzly will feel better than stock.
As you do more and ratio gets bigger eventually you max out the ratio for the best increase in low end pull from a stock air pump configuration. This is extremely important for those wanting to go further with additional c.v.t. mods, to stay away from internal engine/air pump mods, for other benefits like lower engine r.p.m.'s when cruising to generate much higher m.p.g. for greater distance covered on a tank of gas, or maybe higher ground speed than stock.
As for how Yamaha markets their products, most pitchmen make $hit up to sell what they have, and as I've never seen anything from Yamaha's engineering department on a supposed gearing difference or whatever, I feel the Kodi is more a bargain basement offering for those willing to take less to pay less. I have read posts that the difference in size between the knees was a deciding factor, OK....but I have had riders on my 660 that were just over 5' tall and they didn't have a problem with the size, and wouldn't come back to camp until the low fuel bar started to flash. There is an ass for every seat, get what you want.
If you want to try different mods to your system, knock your lights out but keep the old parts if you make a mistake so you can get the system back to stock. Back in the day I had to go back to stock a few times to figure out why the mod results didn't match my goal.
Let us know how deep you want to get into c.v.t. mods.
Thank you for taking the time for a very detailed response. lots of good info here. I guess at this point i better leave things alone and test it out more before I decide what kind of CTV mod would be best for me. This machine is pretty much going to sit in my heated basement over the winter. going to add a winch and hand warmers and maybe a light bar.
 

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When buying snow clearing equipment, you should also be able to distinguish different types of snow equipment. Snow can be cleared in many ways. A lot of homeowners usually take to shoveling snow while others choose to do it the easier and automatic way with the use of heavy-duty equipment. There are a lot of snow clearing machines out there, and they are not all snowblower.
 

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That thing is awesome. I would just put some radial tires on and enjoy it.
 

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Grizzly XTR '22 Wolverine X2 '19
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Did not know Kodiak's were more aligned for grunt work due to clutch specs. This is a very informative bunch of posts - you guys really know your stuff. :)

And, congrats on the new ride.. that's a good-looking rig!!
 
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