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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Grizzly 550 and a 700, both 2100 with about 2500 miles each on them. When I went to clean the air filters, I found that one outer (coarse) filter was deteriorated. I researched my options and decided to keep it simple and buy 2 OEM filters from my Yamaha dealer. Last time I cleaned the filters, I was advised to use No-Toil, so I bought the No-Toil Cleaner. Now I hear some people like No-Toil; some hate it. At this point, I'd like to use what No-Toil I have now and think about making a change later. We don't ride hard and never ride in deep water or in groups where heavy dust is present, so I am not looking for a super high performance solution; just adequate for machines that are not ridden hard and that are routinely maintained.

My question now is, the new OEM Yamaha air filters seem to have oil on them already. They are quite sticky fresh out of the factory packaging. I have read here on some threads that I should add more oil to what is already there. Do I need to clean the existing new, unused oil out of the brand new filters before I add No-Toil oil to them? If so, is there an oil that would be compatible enough that I would not need to clean the brand new filter?
 

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If there's as much oil on the filters you have as there is on the filters on brand new bikes id say your probably alright without adding any more.

BUT..

If you want to add more for peace of mind, I dont see why you couldn't just put some no-toil on them without cleaning the factory goo out..
 
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You should have zero issues mixing the two different kinds of oil on the filter it's not going to hurt it at all. The biggest issue the most people have is cleaning the filter whatever you do do not wring it out. You only squeeze the phone no twisting motion at all. The twisting and wringing is what breaks down the filter foam the quickest.

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You should have zero issues mixing the two different kinds of oil on the filter it's not going to hurt it at all. The biggest issue the most people have is cleaning the filter whatever you do do not wring it out. You only squeeze the phone no twisting motion at all. The twisting and wringing is what breaks down the filter foam the quickest.

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I called No-Toil yesterday and they advised me that their oil will not work well with the petroleum based oil installed in the filters by the factory. He said it will coagulate into a sloppy white substance. I'll go to the Yamaha dealer today to see if they think there is enough oil in the new filters so I won't have to clean the new oil out in order to just soak the filter with other new oil. The fact that the No-Toil won't mix with standard petroleum based oil is disappointing. I'm not sure I'll keep using No-Toil in the future because of that.
 

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I called No-Toil yesterday and they advised me that their oil will not work well with the petroleum based oil installed in the filters by the factory. He said it will coagulate into a sloppy white substance. I'll go to the Yamaha dealer today to see if they think there is enough oil in the new filters so I won't have to clean the new oil out in order to just soak the filter with other new oil. The fact that the No-Toil won't mix with standard petroleum based oil is disappointing. I'm not sure I'll keep using No-Toil in the future because of that.
So that surprisdd me saying it will turn slopoy white when mixed with petroleum oil.
To me, that would be an indication that its water based or alcohol based. I had to go look at the SDS for thier products.... WOW...
It's in The name.. No Toil.... NOT OIL.
They are polomerize fatty acids suspended in an alcohol base. Basically you spray it on, the alcohol evaporates leaving behind the layer of sticky fatty acids that naturally repel water but dirt stuck to it.
One big red flag that i saw was under stability and reactivity.... "do not use with aluminum equipment above 120F"
If left on a hot aluminum part, it could begin to etch in. Good thing there are no hot parts in our aluminum engine block..... Lol


I've always liked thier pre-oiled filters in the past, avg i always used regular filter oil on them after cleaning, never thought there would be any issue mixing, but i was wrong. But after doing an indepth read over thier sds on all thier products, i think I'll stick with uni filters and my oil choice of the day...

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Hey Dan, hope you've been well.

Just a bit of information about aftermarket air filters. I recall reading that some of the aftermarket air filters that are laminated recommend only using that specific brand's air filter cleaner and oil or chance the laminating glue debonding. Now, typically, I would say this is a marketing scam but I have read where customers have said their aftermarket air filter did delaminate and was found they were using non-approved cleaner and oil. I believe it was a NoToil laminated filter where this happened but I can't confirm. The info @CanadianKodiak700 provided seems to jive with what I've read.
 
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I called No-Toil yesterday and they advised me that their oil will not work well with the petroleum based oil installed in the filters by the factory. He said it will coagulate into a sloppy white substance. I'll go to the Yamaha dealer today to see if they think there is enough oil in the new filters so I won't have to clean the new oil out in order to just soak the filter with other new oil. The fact that the No-Toil won't mix with standard petroleum based oil is disappointing. I'm not sure I'll keep using No-Toil in the future because of that.
If the filter came out of the package all oily, im sure its fine. Why would they bother half oiling a filter?

So that surprisdd me saying it will turn slopoy white when mixed with petroleum oil.
To me, that would be an indication that its water based or alcohol based. I had to go look at the SDS for thier products.... WOW...
It's in The name.. No Toil.... NOT OIL.
They are polomerize fatty acids suspended in an alcohol base. Basically you spray it on, the alcohol evaporates leaving behind the layer of sticky fatty acids that naturally repel water but dirt stuck to it.
One big red flag that i saw was under stability and reactivity.... "do not use with aluminum equipment above 120F"
If left on a hot aluminum part, it could begin to etch in. Good thing there are no hot parts in our aluminum engine block..... Lol


I've always liked thier pre-oiled filters in the past, avg i always used regular filter oil on them after cleaning, never thought there would be any issue mixing, but i was wrong. But after doing an indepth read over thier sds on all thier products, i think I'll stick with uni filters and my oil choice of the day...

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Hmm. The dealer sold me not oil when I grabbed stuff last year for my first service. After reading this.. im probably gonna switch.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hey Dan, hope you've been well.

Just a bit of information about aftermarket air filters. I recall reading that some of the aftermarket air filters that are laminated recommend only using that specific brand's air filter cleaner and oil or chance the laminating glue debonding. Now, typically, I would say this is a marketing scam but I have read where customers have said their aftermarket air filter did delaminate and was found they were using non-approved cleaner and oil. I believe it was a NoToil laminated filter where this happened but I can't confirm. The info @CanadianKodiak700 provided seems to jive with what I've read.
Hey Brad! Good to hear from you. I've been well and I hope you have too. Hope you've gotten settled into your new digs. The wife overcame her PTSD from her 2019 ATV accident while we spent a month in Utah, Nevada, and Arizona riding in January. Getting ready for a Moab trip next week, and possibly more Southern Utah/Northern Arizona fun, depending on how the hail gods behave over the next 2-4 weeks.

When I first serviced my air filters, they were already debonded, and I didn't realize that was an issue. I bought brand new ones from Yamaha this time around. They are bonded together, so I will do what I need to in order to keep them that way. On a side note, the No-Toil guy advised me that their cleaning product will not clean petroleum based oil from filters, so I would need to use solvent or gas to clean the oil from the brand new factory filters! I bought my ATV's to have fun, and I am becoming convinced that my purpose is not to take a bunch of extra steps just so I can use No-Toil's product. It is starting to feel to me like No-Toil is oblivious to that sort of thinking. I hate wasting things, but I am just this close to throwing away my No-Toil products.
 

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Hey Brad! Good to hear from you. I've been well and I hope you have too. Hope you've gotten settled into your new digs. The wife overcame her PTSD from her 2019 ATV accident while we spent a month in Utah, Nevada, and Arizona riding in January. Getting ready for a Moab trip next week, and possibly more Southern Utah/Northern Arizona fun, depending on how the hail gods behave over the next 2-4 weeks.

When I first serviced my air filters, they were already debonded, and I didn't realize that was an issue. I bought brand new ones from Yamaha this time around. They are bonded together, so I will do what I need to in order to keep them that way. On a side note, the No-Toil guy advised me that their cleaning product will not clean petroleum based oil from filters, so I would need to use solvent or gas to clean the oil from the brand new factory filters! I bought my ATV's to have fun, and I am becoming convinced that my purpose is not to take a bunch of extra steps just so I can use No-Toil's product. It is starting to feel to me like No-Toil is oblivious to that sort of thinking. I hate wasting things, but I am just this close to throwing away my No-Toil products.
After learning post-purchase that no toil needed its own proprietary cleaning agent... i was pretty convinced it was just a scheme for the company to sell more product lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If the filter came out of the package all oily, im sure its fine. Why would they bother half oiling a filter?
You're probably right, but after all of my research to this point, it would break my heart if I damaged my machines because I failed to ask that one last, critical question.

Hmm. The dealer sold me not oil when I grabbed stuff last year for my first service. After reading this.. im probably gonna switch.
You beat me to it with that comment!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
After learning post-purchase that no toil needed its own proprietary cleaning agent... i was pretty convinced it was just a scheme for the company to sell more product lol.
I agree. After talking to the No-Toil representative yesterday, that was the feeling I got also. My late brother in law worked on all sorts of ATV's, and he was who advised me that the Grizzly was the machine to get. When I serviced my filter and told him that I used No-Toil, he said he hated that product. I am starting to understand why; it won't clean any filter that doesn't have No-Toil and you have to clean real oil with a product other than theirs, their "oil" won't play well with other oil, and they are unconcerned about the amount of time and effort we would need to go through to give them our money.
 

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Hope you've gotten settled into your new digs. The wife overcame her PTSD from her 2019 ATV accident while we spent a month in Utah, Nevada, and Arizona riding in January. Getting ready for a Moab trip next week, and possibly more Southern Utah/Northern Arizona fun, depending on how the hail gods behave over the next 2-4 weeks.
Thanks and yes, settled but busy with a kitchen remodel that I first had to gut. Still no movement on a roof yet, will let you know when that comes up.

Good to hear about you're both out riding in some great western areas to ride. WE EXPECT PICTURES!!! :whistle: :p
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
100207

Thanks and yes, settled but busy with a kitchen remodel that I first had to gut. Still no movement on a roof yet, will let you know when that comes up.

Good to hear about you're both out riding in some great western areas to ride. WE EXPECT PICTURES!!! :whistle: :p
There's a teaser, Brad. I don't want to hijack my own thread though!!!
 

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I will say that during my first service I used the no toil cleaner to clean my factory filter and it worked just fine. When it was dry it was pretty clearly clean, no oily residue or anything and when I applied the no toil it didn't milk up.

So if you want the peace of mind on having a properly oiled filter I don't think you should have an issue cleaning your factory one with the no toil cleaner. If for whatever reason it doesn't work for you.. then go ahead and clean it with something else. Definitely worth a shot trying the cleaner you already have first though
 

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Well it shouldn't milk up if you cleaned the oem oil off, that's the issue, adding notoil filter oil to oem petroleum based oil... That will apparently go milky Nevaeh its basically mixing oil and water/alcohol.

They do make a very good cleaner though, it will clean just about anything.


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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I will say that during my first service I used the no toil cleaner to clean my factory filter and it worked just fine. When it was dry it was pretty clearly clean, no oily residue or anything and when I applied the no toil it didn't milk up.

So if you want the peace of mind on having a properly oiled filter I don't think you should have an issue cleaning your factory one with the no toil cleaner. If for whatever reason it doesn't work for you.. then go ahead and clean it with something else. Definitely worth a shot trying the cleaner you already have first though

Well it shouldn't milk up if you cleaned the oem oil off, that's the issue, adding notoil filter oil to oem petroleum based oil... That will apparently go milky Nevaeh its basically mixing oil and water/alcohol.

They do make a very good cleaner though, it will clean just about anything.
The first time I used the No-Toil, it seemed to clean the filters just fine. I don't know what the previous owners had used, and I had bought my 550 and 700 from two different previous owners, so it would be a coincidence if they both used No-Toil. However, the No-Toil representative who called me back specifically advised me that their cleaner would not clean oil from filters; it would only clean the No-Toil oil.

Sounds crazy, that is what he told me.
 

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The first time I used the No-Toil, it seemed to clean the filters just fine. I don't know what the previous owners had used, and I had bought my 550 and 700 from two different previous owners, so it would be a coincidence if they both used No-Toil. However, the No-Toil representative who called me back specifically advised me that their cleaner would not clean oil from filters; it would only clean the No-Toil oil.

Sounds crazy, that is what he told me.
Well I'll 100% call bs on that rep based on first hand experience. I've used no toil cleaner to clean both k&n oil, and valvoline 2 stroke oil off my filters. It worked great in both cases.

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This is my opinion on the use of No-toil. I've been using the stuff for over 15 or so years. From my KTM's and through 4 Grizzly's. Yes I took the original filters out and cleaned them. Then I started using the No-toil. I've used them on aftermarket filters and I've had them separate. What I did to cure that separation problem was using warm water not hot. My problem cured. Other cure was using OEM filters. I clean filters a lot, I change filters several times for week long trips. The only benefit that I like is that it's easy to clean. Using their cleaner and water and I'm done. Water makes it very convenient. Hell I can throw 2 or 3 filters in the washing machine and use it. They come out clean and I'm still married. Of course I did get the "You put what in my washing machine".
Are their better oils out there, sure they are. But for ease and as often as I clean them No-toil suits me. Side note I do prefer the Red No-toil over the Green. I ride in lot's of dust, no mud and very little water. Other opinions may vary.
 
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Are their better oils out there, sure they are. But for ease and as often as I clean them No-toil suits me. Side note I do prefer the Red No-toil over the Green. I ride in lot's of dust, no mud and very little water.
That is definitely interesting and I wasn't aware of the info you provided, thanks. I've been using two Uni air filters with Uni branded cleaner and oil because of my mention earlier about laminating glue separating on other brand filters. Just spooked me a bit as the damage that can occur from a failed air filter is not worth the extra few bucks it costs to buy the recommended cleaner/oil even though I don't recall seeing info about Uni filters delaminating. Better safe than sorry... It is just that the Uni cleaner/oil products are typically not in stock at local motor sport locations for convenience. So I need to plan ahead and order it online. If you're saying No Toil filters can be cleaned with warm/hot water, that would be nice to only have to buy the No Toil filter "oil".
 

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That is definitely interesting and I wasn't aware of the info you provided, thanks. I've been using two Uni air filters with Uni branded cleaner and oil because of my mention earlier about laminating glue separating on other brand filters. Just spooked me a bit as the damage that can occur from a failed air filter is not worth the extra few bucks it costs to buy the recommended cleaner/oil even though I don't recall seeing info about Uni filters delaminating. Better safe than sorry... It is just that the Uni cleaner/oil products are typically not in stock at local motor sport locations for convenience. So I need to plan ahead and order it online. If you're saying No Toil filters can be cleaned with warm/hot water, that would be nice to only have to buy the No Toil filter "oil".
Uni filters don't have a delamenating problem. Never have. And can be cleaned in all most any cleaner, thier own or mineral spirits or even gas a few times is what i have used. K&n cleaner is easy to find and works great on uni filters.

Uni is my top choice of filter. That's eBay's going on my kodiak here at next service

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