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Discussion Starter #1
Just picked up a gallon of both at Walmart in Montrose, CO and both products no longer carry the API SM Service Designation.

After doing many hours of research, I was going to use the T-4 with my first couple of changes, changing frequently and adding gold plugs, then switch to T-6 from there on. I'm at 186.1 mi, & 12:44 hours. I thought I'd go right to the synthetic, but my last ride was 60 miles and I thought I could feel it gaining power. Which either means it's now already broken in, or maybe only mostly broken in. I read one thread here where an Amsoil dealer recommended starting using it on the 3rd oci, so the nominal if any additional wear may actually help as the bike seems to be still gaining power. I know there are many theories, but this is the one that I was looking to follow.

However after I got them home, while it is JASO DH2, JASO M/MA2, the API Service is just listed on both jugs as CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, & CH-4, however no SM rating. So I guess it's now wet clutch certified for just diesel motors? While I had no problem going to an oil that's marketing was skewed towards diesel motors, but without that cert, it could voice the warranty, plus without the gas rating I wouldn't want to use it any way,.

As I picked it up at Walmart, my lube choices were small. They had Valvoline Dino 80W-90, Supertech Dino 80W-90, Supertech synthetic 75W-140, and out of a semi-syn Supertech. I bought the full syn ST 75W-140 & the V Dino 80W-90. The V is both GL-4 & 5 rated in diffs. The ST is just rated GL-5 for diffs. Unlike the API service ratings, the GL ratings are not backwards compatible, but a different product for a different purpose. V recommends it for hypoid diffs, conventional and limited slip. The ST lists "this superior quality full syn gear oil is man shift trans, conventional diffs, rear axles and steering gear boxes as found in cars, trucks, tractors and farm implements. Can be used to top off of limited slip/positive traction rear axles." I bought both products as Walmart is even a 2-1/2 hour round trip from here and I knew the forum would help me decide. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to also go to a motorsports store.

The same ST product online lists both hypoid and limited slip in their description:
"Super Tech 75W-140 Synthetic Gear Oil is formulated with 100 percent synthetic base oils to provide superior gear protection over a wide range of operating and ambient temperatures. Made with premium extreme pressure additives, rust preventatives, and antifoam additives, this oil protects hypoid gears, manual transmissions, gearboxes, passenger car and light truck conventional differentials, transmission and steering gears.
Super Tech 75W-140 Synthetic Gear Oil, 1 Quart:
Formulated with 100 percent synthetic base oils
Provides superior gear protection
Made with premium extreme pressure additives, rust preventatives and antifoam additives
Meets API GL-5 and MT-1, MACK GO-J, SAE J2360, MIL-PRF-2105E(PG-2) and Limited Slip specifications
Model# WM7514PL"

Looking at synthetic gear oil online, it looks like the Supertech is priced in the same range as the rest of the synthetic pack. I guess this product is for those that like to pay a bunch of money for synthetic lube, but don't want to feel pretentious when others are visiting their garage.

Preferably, I'd like to go to a full syn 75W-90, as I've read the closer the numbers, the more stable the product. The GL-4, hypoid, & limited slip are all designations I'd like to see as well.

Anyway, while I don't mind using alternative products as long as they have the proper certs, it pays to read the package each time to verify the stuff you bought last time is still the stuff you got this time. Out of the four products, I think I can only use the V gear oil as it is the only one meeting factory ratings on it's current packaging. I both do not want to void my warranty, or use the wrong product. So I will have to see what Ace Hardware might have locally, make the long trip again, or buy online, but even online descriptions may vary from product packaging.

If you googled "rear, lube & jugs" and got here, my apologies.
 
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FYI, you can use GL-5 gear oil in diffs only requiring GL-4....but you can't go the other way.
Any of those gears oil you picked up will work perfectly fine in your front/rear diffs.

GL-4 and GL-5 means it is for use in "Hypoid" styled differentials.
 

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I checked the Rotella web site and it said that that the T-6 was the only wet clucth rated oil in there product line.
 

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Looked into this as well, the t4 is jaso ma,ma2 cert. found it at my local canadian tire and looked, only thing im wondering is it not being cert for gas now if it can still be used in our grizzlys.
 

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What looks to me that happened, so I'm just hypothesizing, is that Shell picked up on the fact that tons and tons of people were using the T6 for cars, motorcycles, and ATV's, so they decided to take advantage of that. Because in recent months they came out with a "multi-vehicle" version of the T6. Check it out: Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle Full Synthetic | Shell ROTELLA®

So it has the gas engine specs, but not JASO-MA/MA2.

But the traditional T6 still carries it. So as long as it has that, I'm placing my bets the formula is still the exact same and they just wanted to put their gas certification $$ into the new blend. I'll keep running the traditional T6 as long as it's wet clutch rated.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
It's no longer rated SG or higher as the manual calls for, so Yamaha can avoid warranty claims, as it is now a non-approved oil. They might cover your wet clutch as it still is JASO-MA, but they won't have to cover your engine.

With so many on here running Rotella, I thought this would be of more concern, wether or not the bikes are still on warranty.

It could be they just are not current on their certification, a typo on the product packaging, or a significant change in the product that could be detrimental to gas engines. The problem is we don't know which one.

I'm not going to chance it, unless the product regains a gas certification. It was one thing to use the product when although marketed as a diesel oil, it still had a gas certification far exceeding manufacturer's requirement. Now it's just a wet-clutch certified diesel oil, with no certification for gas. Yamaha can deny coverage, and I don't want to run an oil not approved to run gas.
 

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Telluride, thats my thinking as well. I have enough rotella t left for the season but after that im not sure what il be running.. to bad this t4 is not gas certified :/
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I do agree that likely it would be ok to run it without any adverse problems, I just like to be a bit more certain than likely. Yamaha denying coverage is a deal-breaker as well.

Rotella, re-up your SM cert! What good is the JASO-MA/MA2 cert without the SM?
 

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Screenshot from the current spec sheet on Shell's website. SM is still listed for T6 at least. I've seen this before on other bottles where they just don't print every single cert on the bottle.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I may see if I can email them to see what they say. I just wish they still had it on the packaging.
 

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Best To Research before React...Been using Rotella t4 for thousands upon thousands of miles.

For an oil to gain JASO-??? certification. It must have "at least an API rating of SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM"

My 2016 Griz manual lists (recommends) oil of API SG or higher Or JASO-MA

FYI... API SG is an obsolete standard design for 1993 and older vehicles

www.oilspecifications.org/JASO_MA_JASO_MB

JASO MA and JASO MB classifications - oilspecifications.org
Good to know! Learn somthing everyday. If thats the case were good to use t4!
 

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My T6 which I bought maybe 2 months ago from Walmart has the SM rating on the container.
It said: ... CH-4/SM
See the attached picture!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Grizz2015, your oil is good, prior to packaging changes or reformulation.

Thanks for the information reogem, however according to your sources:

"In order for a motor oil to meet any of the above mentioned JASO standards it must be at least of one of the following quality levels:

API SG, SH, SJ, SL, SM
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2, GF-3
ACEA A1/B1, A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2, C3"

Note that according to this, it doesn't have to meet an API cert, as instead it could meet an ILSAC or an ACEA cert. It does list a cert for ACEA E9.

I know many of you have been running this for a long time and I would like to as well, I just need reassurance this isn't a new formulation that no longer retains its API SM certification.
 

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Like alot of things on our machines, most people completely look far to into it. This is being way over-thought.
While I understand this (a reformulation could be bad for us) you really do not need to look at the API ratings. The most important thing to need to look for is if the oil has Friction Modifiers in it, meaning is it a Energy Conserving oil? Look for the round API Symbol, and if "Energy Conserving" or "Energy Conservation" or something like that is written on that symbol, you cannot use it as it will cause wet clutch slippage. Other than that, it really doesn't matter.

While having the Jaso rating is good for easy clarification (this means it is not a Energy Conserving oil), you do not require this rating.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
It's bizarre they don't print it on the jug, especially that it seems they upgraded to SN from SM. On the bottom of that form, it Lists Rotella T4 15w-40, version 1.3, as of January. So it's obviously it's a new formulation, just odd they wouldn't let us know that: 1. It still is gas approved, 2. it meets a higher standard than before. Plenty of room on that jug to include the new rating.

While I know the JASO MA means it is wet clutch safe, not having the SN on the bottle obviously causes confusion wether it is gas engine safe. I do want to protect my clutch, but not at the expense of engine protection.

I agree that I'm probably over-thinking it, but that's why this forum is here. I haven't decided yet wether I'll use it, but at least other forum members know there may be an issue as well. It's likely ok, but at least everyone can make an educated decision. I'm guessing most haven't bothered to look for that cert every time they pick up a new jug.

Thanks to everyone for the help, I'm leaning toward using it, but I still may contact Shell first. I'll let you know what I find out.
 

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Telluride, i hear ya and i was very confused myself. And un sure if i was gonna use it. I was going to post the same question on here to ask lol like you said thats why this forum is here, atleast why i use it. Nice community and informative.I phoned shell and the lad on phone told me to look up the tds if i didnt believe him but that it is in fact safe to use
 

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Discussion Starter #20
grizz1995, did you ask about the T6 as well or just the T4?
 
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